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G60 Tuning and Common G60 Info

158K views 79 replies 45 participants last post by  Seomobster 
#1 · (Edited)
G60 Digifunk Monkey Spunk FAQ FYI

Hey everybody.... I'd like to get some help for an FYI, FAQ my G60 runs like digifunk, Q&A write up.
I didn't see this in the FAQ... maybe I missed it?
I'll bet there is some info that could come from the CCA site... haven't looked in awhile.
We get a ton of phone calls from G60 owners all over the world... every day because their G60 cars run poorly.. and to be honest it is almost always something very basic. If you haven't tried it, it is pretty hard to diagnose a poor running car over the phone. Kind of like calling the doctor for a examination over the phone and expecting a cure and good heath.
So here is a start please help.
I will edit this top post and add to it as it grows.
My plan is to email this to guys when they have G60 running problems.
Lets come up with some questions from this forum and give the answers.
Thanks in advance for all of your combined knowledge and contributions.
Q: So my car goes full pig fat rich at at 3,4 or 5k rpm and looses all its power or goes completely flat on power.
A: Well you need to start with the basics. Good tune up parts, Bosch W6DPO plugs good Bosch cap and rotor, plug wires, fuel filter, correct timing procedure, vac line replacement not just check them, ecu vac line 1M, replace ground wires and wires for the battery, alternator, starer and ecu...ect after all these cars are near 14 years old. Check for boost leaks they can cause the funk mode. Run the correct Bosch O2 sensor, check or replace your knock sensor, if the wire to it is rubbed through replace it. Did you check to see if your cam timing slipped? Replace the #30 ecu power control relay.
Q: So my car goes full dust fart'n lean at at 3,4 or 5k rpm and looses all its power or goes completely flat on power. The plugs are bright white and it pings.
Q: What is the correct ignition timing procedure for my G60?
Q: How do I check my cam timing?
A:???
 
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#54 ·
Re: (nextproject)

i had same problem in my corrado and Yes it can be many things but i assure you if you are pushing more than ten lbs of boost then you need a Cam fuel pressure reg and chip that match each other.i have 16-17 psi of boost and installed bbm stage 4 kit and it made a unbeleivable differance.now it revs right up into the red zone with no hesitation but I also changed o2 sensor and that doubled my power.but if you only have 13-14 psi you can go stage 3.other than that,get back to me on what mods,psi and other things and I promise I can help but need specifics
 
#58 ·
difference between open loop and closed loop

open loop means the car is running on a pre programmed fuel and ignition map that runs rich to encourage start up emissions, temperature heat soak in the coolant and thusly switch, based on various inputs from the o2 sensor, hall sender, co pot, etc, from open loop to closed loop control where the ecu uses the inputs from the sensors to determine the correct fuel air ignition maps to run; cold start is like automatically programmed values(open loop) which change when the cts generates the correct signal to the ecu; which triggers (closed loop) operation, where the maps used by the ecu are dictated by the various sensor inputs. Understand?:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:
 
#59 ·
boost return question

i had a minor question regarding the modification to the boost return system; if one were to on a slightly modified car (68mm, stg 3 chip, exhaust and intake mods) to replace the piping with a catch tank that incorporated the pcv heater element, and replace the plastic tubing with steel braided lines and attach this to the charger at the return port with a block off, would the oil blow by from the charger amount to much? would, in your experience, this mod be feasible? since the flow is not impeded in theory at least, wouldnt the operation allow oil vapor/excess boost to be returned?: ive seen mention of concern for the pcv system; id like a in depth reply, since ive been assembling parts for a modified return tract and plan on setting up.:thumbup::thumbup: Thanks! VIVA BAHN BRENNER!
 
#62 ·
oops!

Wow after researching this project, Mr.Betz, i realize why you might not have answered it-corrado owners are quite "passionate"-and the conflicting answers i have received so far have only whittled down my questions regarding the actual utility of replacing the boost return tube.
I have started on a catch can with an fittings and a stainless hose on one side (to the charger block off with a nipple plumbed in), a bung on the top (for the pcv heater element) and a 2 inch diameter bung facing the direction of the firewall, which connects using a 2" diameter hose and fitting to the boost return. The question I have is one of simple design: should i put some type of baffle inside of this can? would a baffle be helpful in this instance? I realize, Mr.Betz, that youre a busy guy, so any help is duly appreciated.:thumbup::thumbup: Viva Bahn Brenner! Thank you!:biggrinsanta::snowcool:
 
#66 ·
do you guys know from where i get the vacuum hose for the ecu? and i have a small problem.... Car was running fine then out ouf the blue it turn off while in the highway turn it on while i had speed and kept working correctly. Then park turn it off and when i got back wouldn't start. After few tries it start but REVs where bouncing and if i took my foot from accelerator it will turn off. l try again but some smog came thru my air vent. The previous ower did not know what he was doing and i can see he tried to mess with some cables but still car was working fine when this happen.... :banghead:
help anyone?
 
#67 ·
you can get the cloth hose material in the correct size from the VW dealer... we can also get it for you. we should get this stuff on our site. not sure what your other issue is there.
 
#69 ·
afr is dependent on hp load.....no load and it should be very lean. running down freeway at cruise speed should be lean. as you make boost and power the fueling should go up.
 
#72 ·
ECU vacuum hose

Not sure if I missed it..but concerning the ecu vacuum hose. Quick searches have resulted in an affirmative "must be exactly 1m" in length.

The reasons given are wavelength frequency of the pressure/vacuum pulses, to pressure exerted, to distance/time lag to map properly...take your pick I guess.

Considering that the stock G60 hose connects to the t-body directly after the venturis (so in essence it is connected to the intake manifold), must it be 1m from that point, or 1m from anywhere on the intake manifold?

reason is I'm trying to run the G60 engine mgmt on my 16v turbo (for now, later I'll go MS). Current setup has the ecu's vacuum hose in silicon 3.5mm ID. The length is 1.1m and it's currently hooked up to the far side (opposite side of the t-body) on a 'log' intake manifold. So, technically it's much farther away from the t-body..but shouldn't the vacuum reading be the same throughout the entire intake manifold?

What is the correlation between hose length and performance? Has anyone conducted any empirical tests (dyno) to show the effect of using various lengths of ecu vacuum hose? If not, how can anyone say that it has to be 1m exactly?
 
#73 ·
Has anyone conducted any empirical tests (dyno) to show the effect of using various lengths of ecu vacuum hose? If not, how can anyone say that it has to be 1m exactly?
Let me tell ya, never done anything with a dyno but I've tinkered around quite a bit due to curiosity with these things.. I was always concerned about it not being "exactly 1m" because of the plastic connectors you use to put them on the hose nipple; thinking they would throw it off.

In addition to that I was always concerned about the width of the hose itself.

Been an inch or so off one time, couldn't notice a difference. Changed the width, still no difference. Maybe I'm crazy but as long as its within a half inch range- maybe more- my g60 ran fine. :thumbup:
 
#74 · (Edited)
Alright... we've been picking away at this for two days so I figured I'd post up asking. Seeing as G60 info is few and far in between, and very inconsistent.... hopefully this will help someone else out some day.

I have a 92 golf with a G60 in it, it was running a 68mm pulley and was otherwise stock. Brand new O2, and everything else seemed to work well. Car worked great. Put a BBM stage 2 on it and took it for a drive. Worked even better, blew the head gasket in under 5km, so bad that it wouldn't start. Had to plane the head 8 thou, put in new lifters, and the engine appeared to be otherwise fine (valves tested, newish pistons).

So as of now I have
-bbm stage 2 with a 68mm pulley and stock cam
-header into 2.25" with a new O2
-New boost piping
-All new seals, a lot of new bolts, everything tightened to spec
-New air filter
-Engine is at 8.15:1 CR
-91 octane (nothing higher available)
-cam timing is off a fraction of a tooth from planing.
-everything else is timed up well

The car simply won't run. It'll idle but it's all over the place, misses, and struggles to recover if you rev it. It'll drive okay through the gears and misses less as RPM increases, but it's completely messed at any level of throttle. We're assuming a problem with the TPS (which didn't exist prior), as the wiring is questionable, but that would only affect idle and WOT?

Does anyone have info on the TPS, which pin is which, which wire goes where. There's signal, ground, and 5V. Stock wiring, manual car.


next in line is pulling wires and checking compression.


10psi in cylinder 4, ~120 in cylinder 3 guess I found the problem :banghead:
 
#80 · (Edited)
With regards to running rich:


The Co-pot, ISV, o2 Sensor, Blue coolant temp sensor, Idle switch, and knock sensor can all be unplugged and tested to see if that makes any improvement.

If you can put it into service mode - then will help narrow you down to where you need to be. If it runs better/ok/decent in limp mode, its likely a bad sensor somewhere.

If the car warms up ok - then goes to crap. Then its something happening after the sensors kick on after warmup enrichment is over.

Check the injector rail - should be 4ohms. The injector harnesses at this point are so brittle, and falling apart. The last one i removed had bare wires touching.

does it idle rich, but drive ok? Look into the FPR.

double check the resistance on the ISV. between 2 and 10 Ohms.

Check for spark, and a good Coil resistance.

Ive yet to see a bad blue coolant sensor. But check the resistance to be sure.

10 C = 3000 - 4000 Ohm
20 C = 2000 - 2800 Ohm (this is typical room temp)
80 C = 300 - 400 Ohm
100C = 170 - 220 Ohm (this is typical operating temp)


Make sure the ECU grounds are good. With a multimeter!!


Schematic Rectangle Font Parallel Engineering



DF1 25pin ECU Plug:

1 - red/green - cranking live - spade on c/18, or tapped to starter red/black
2 - purple - lambda probe pin 4
3 - blue/yellow - fuel relay trigger - D/13
4 - white - knock sensor pin 4
5 - blue - inlet air temp/co pot pin 1
6 - brown/white - sensor common earth (tapped to various sensor brown/white wires)
7 - yellow - knock sensor pin 2 & 3 (earth and shield)
8 - red/black - distributor pin 3
9 - blue/white - inlet air temp/co pot pin 2
10 - brown/green - ecu coolant temp sensor pin 1
11 - red/blue - idle switch
12 - brown/yellow - fuel rail plug pin 2
13 - brown - earth to battery
14 - black/yellow - ecu relay power & ISV - to relay above fusebox
15 - blue/black - WOT switch
18 - green/white - distributor pin 2
19 - brown/white - earth to head
22 - white - ISV pin 3
24 - green/yellow - rev counter - ignore
25 - green - coil trigger - coil negative



CE2 Fusebox pinout - Central Electric 2




More info here: G60 Drivability Problems

and here for diagnosis work - http://oldbluesblog.com/files/DigifantProTrainingManual_DoubleSided.pdf

and of course - Corrado Bentley Manual

edit: no need for the sass
 
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