In search of my ideal street car: 2011 Honda Civic Si build (8K+ N/A content inside) - Page 3
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    1. #51
      Member cournot's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mj8807 View Post
      A few years ago I owned an 02 rsx type s and absolutely loved it. I can only imagine the si being even better due to having the lsd. Often I think about giving up on new cars and going back to something small, and tossable.

      Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
      That was exactly the reason I went for this car--I found myself falling in the trap of searching for more and more powerful modern cars. There was a time in which I very seriously considered replacing my Accord with a Challenger Scat Pack or S550 GT. It took some time before I realized what I wanted was something simple, light, and powerful enough, and the Si fit that perfectly (while still having what I consider as modern safety features--ACE structure and side/side curtain airbags).

      I've gotten so much flak for purchasing this Si--many of my friends simply don't get it (it's too slow, it's slower than your Accord, my *insert X vehicle* on coilovers will out handle it, it's not boosted etc). The way I see it is that there will always be a faster car than yours, just buy something that puts a smile on your face, not something to compete with what someone else has.

      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      Someone in town recently got a bright red Si sedan and it looks really sharp.

      Any differences or Best years for this gen?
      The biggest thing is that 09+ models got a stronger final drive bearing and better 3rd gear synchronizer. More important than that is to find one that was properly maintained--too often these cars get beat on and sold on a yearly basis.

      Quote Originally Posted by PoorHouse View Post
      Would love to sell the Forester and get one of these.

      Need wagon for kid and dog.

      In for living vicariously through the op's project.
      Speaking of the wagons, the next project for me (after a few years, already digging into electrical schematics) is to buy my mother's mint 2012 TSX wagon and manual swap it with a 9th gen Si LSD trans. From a first glance it seems fairly straightforward. A head swap kit also available to put the K20 head on the car, yielding some 260-280WHP, which would be a total riot in a fairly staid-looking wagon.

      Quote Originally Posted by mremg View Post


      I'm looking into the Si in the near future as a replacement for my beloved R56 MINI Cooper S (I miss it so much).
      R56S was on my list! What an amazing car to drive, at the end of the day I felt more familiar and comfortable with the Honda but the midrange torque of that motor was sublime.
      Last edited by cournot; 07-10-2016 at 12:38 PM.

    2. #52
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      I've seen a few threads lately regarding the si and it's really making me miss my type s . However, I don't know that the si would "fit" into my driving lifestyle right now. I would say at least 90 percent of my driving is for necessity (work, groceries, etc...) and on straight 55mph roads. I rarely get to drive for fun or drive on fun roads. Anyone have any input as to how the si handles boring daily drives?

      Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

    3. #53
      Member Tokyosmash!'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mj8807 View Post
      I've seen a few threads lately regarding the si and it's really making me miss my type s . However, I don't know that the si would "fit" into my driving lifestyle right now. I would say at least 90 percent of my driving is for necessity (work, groceries, etc...) and on straight 55mph roads. I rarely get to drive for fun or drive on fun roads. Anyone have any input as to how the si handles boring daily drives?

      Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
      So you bought a car that rides rough and gets terrible fuel economy?

    4. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tokyosmash! View Post
      So you bought a car that rides rough and gets terrible fuel economy?
      I don't think at any point in my ramblings I made that statement. Maybe I wasn't clear though, I had a type s and I miss the fun of it. I was THINKING about replacing my current car with something along the lines of an si to replicate the fun factor that I miss.

      Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

    5. #55
      Quote Originally Posted by mj8807 View Post
      I've seen a few threads lately regarding the si and it's really making me miss my type s . However, I don't know that the si would "fit" into my driving lifestyle right now. I would say at least 90 percent of my driving is for necessity (work, groceries, etc...) and on straight 55mph roads. I rarely get to drive for fun or drive on fun roads. Anyone have any input as to how the si handles boring daily drives?
      That's pretty much all the driving I do with my Si - it turns the boring commute into a less boring commute. Sometimes it gets a little tiring but better than being bored the whole time.

    6. #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by quik89si View Post
      That's pretty much all the driving I do with my Si - it turns the boring commute into a less boring commute. Sometimes it gets a little tiring but better than being bored the whole time.
      I may have to hunt one down and see how it fares on my boring drives haha.

      Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

    7. #57
      Member candy11's Avatar
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      In for updates. I owned many a Honda but never a k20 powered car.


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    8. #58
      Member cournot's Avatar
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      UPDATE

      I’ll start with some fresh parts I just received—as I’d mentioned before, my focus here is on building a street car, so OEM parts and quality, street-oriented aftermarket parts are being utilized. Honda is nice enough to allow us to purchase JDM-only parts from US dealers, which makes what I’m doing much easier.

      First up, glam shots of the parts.

      ”Generic” (PLM) Tri-Y longtube header with Mil.Spec 100 cell HFC
      Let’s get this out of the way first—this part was purchased on eBay. This is a replica of the OG SSR header that was one of the best header designs for a stock block K20.

      Why would I touch an eBay product?
      1) This is one of the only headers that has a removable test pipe section in which I can have a HFC welded
      2) This is the largest, best performing header that clears the stock steering rack and subframe with enough clearance that I do not need aftermarket motor mounts, which I refuse to run for NVH reasons.
      3) This is a Tri-Y design that should maximize midrange power, which is what I want on this motor.
      4) It’s actually not that bad. The welds are perfect, the flange mates with the primary runner perfectly, it’s stainless, and I got the slip joints welded to prevent leaks.

      A note on the HFC. I know I’m giving up ~5WHP and probably 5lb-ft of midrange torque with a HFC, but I can’t stand the smell of unburnt fuel on a street car and the environment is a consideration. This is the least restrictive HFC that is still 49-state compliant (OBD1), which is good enough for me, I see no reason not to run this.



      Fantastic welds done by Full Time Fab




      Pretty open cat

      Accord V6 “J35” throttle body

      The OE Si throttle body is a 63mm inlet and 60mm outlet, while the Accord V6 “J35” TB is 68mm at the inlet and 65mm at the outlet, a 17% increase in cross section (measured at the outlet).

      While the stock TB is not really all that much of a restriction, this throttle gives you 90% of the gains of even larger throttles, with far better drivability, idle quality, and mates perfectly with the “RRC” intake manifold that I’ll write about below.



      Keihin—but where’s the carb??

      FD2 Civic Type-R “RRC” Intake Manifold

      RRC. These are three really special letters to Hondaphiles. The “RR” signifies the final iteration of the 8K+ K20 motors (“PR” was Gen 1, “RB” was Gen 2). The “C” tends to mean “Type-R” (PRC was the DC5 Type R motor, RBC was the Accord Euro-R motor, RRC is the FD2 Type R motor. If there’s a “B” at the end, these are the more plebeian motors, where PRB is the RSX-S motor, RBB is the Gen 1 TSX K24A2, and the RRB is the K20Z3 from the 8th gen Si. These are broad categorizations but pretty correct).

      Anyway, the RRC manifold is the best stock structure, stock location intake manifold for a K20. Wider, fatter runners and a larger plenum volume mean more mid-range and top-end, especially on a motor that breathes better than stock. The best part of all of this is that it’s cast and machined aluminum—no ugly plastic IM here.



      Those three letters again

      FD2 Civic Type-R “RRC” Oil Pump
      This was a splurge and is going to cost me a fair bit to have installed. The OEM oil pump has two fairly heavy balance shafts to kill low-rpm/idle vibrations so that the idle speed can be reduced to 700-750RPM as it is on the standard car. I could really care less about idle fuel consumption, so running the RRC oil pump with an idle speed of 850RPM is fine with me and is actually more drivable. It also frees up 5-10WHP, makes the motor more eager to rev, and allows me to run a baffled oil pan, which I’m having installed for peace of mind.


      Those three letters again!

      Drag Cartel “Drop In” Camshafts
      It’s pretty tough to improve on the stock K20 camshafts—in fact, the Type R camshafts would have probably been fine for me and gotten within 5-10WHP of these. But I’m trying to get the most power I can out of a stock 2L motor, so upgraded cams were a no-brainer.

      These cams don’t require an upgraded valvetrain (which I would prefer to not have installed—the standard aftermarket valvetrain for this motor uses a Ti retainer which I don’t want on my street car). These have pretty beefy primary or “non-VTEC” lobes, which should really improve the midrange and they will, most importantly, have a fantastic crossover sound, because that’s what VTEC is all about (this is only partially a joke).


      Those are the *exhaust* lobes—pretty big right? No wonder these motors flow so well.


      Cam specs for those that are interested

      All in all, I expect the following numbers: 235WHP, 160WTQ, which correspond, roughly speaking, to 260HP/180TQ. I think that’ll do just fine for a 2900# car.

    9. #59
      Member Turbo Benzina!'s Avatar
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      Can't remember the last time I read a build thread like this here in TCL.
      Definitely in!

      I don't know much about the K20s you got in the US but what do they put down on the wheels from factory?
      Also, I may have missed it in the thread but, any plans on minor headwork together with the cams?

    10. #60
      Member cournot's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Turbo Benzina! View Post
      Can't remember the last time I read a build thread like this here in TCL.
      Definitely in!

      I don't know much about the K20s you got in the US but what do they put down on the wheels from factory?
      Also, I may have missed it in the thread but, any plans on minor headwork together with the cams?
      The 8th gen Si puts down 170-180WHP given the dyno, there were rumors that the 2011 made more power but it was proven wrong (one data point only).

      Headwork was an option but a cam swap is much faster (super easy on a K20 with the roller rockers). On a stock compression motor like mine I would guess headwork would get me 5WHP at most. These heads flow 300CFM on the intake already which is insane on a mass production casting.

    11. #61
      Junior Member AutoGolf's Avatar
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      Great parts, man! My final #s with a very similar build were 230 whp and 162 wtq, so I can definitely see you hitting those #s you're after. And the VTEC crossover (mine is at ~4700 rpm) is near magical with the DICs.......although I wouldn't mind some DC stage 2s falling into my lap

      Good luck with it.......I can tell you from experience that there are many happy miles ahead of you!

    12. #62
      Nice. Those cars run pretty good with a couple bolt-ons and a tune. You'll have a fun car with those cams in there, man.
      I'm really just here for the pancakes.
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    13. #63
      Member mike in SC's Avatar
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      I think you're on the right track with your Si. When I had my ep3 the only changes I made were the A-spec suspension, hawk pads, and opening the air box. Around 2009 when I bought it I knew I should have bought the 2009 sedan. Still bothered by it!

      I might get a sedan sometime.

      Loaded question! Are you planning to autocross/track it after this work?
      (sheriff)Early, I though you said this was a drug possum.
      (Early) Sure, I drug him from the ditch.
      (sheriff) I wish you told me that before you sold him to me.

    14. #64
      Member l88m22vette's Avatar
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      Love seeing this project, please take all kinds of pics of the engine build-up
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    15. #65
      Member cournot's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mike in SC View Post
      Loaded question! Are you planning to autocross/track it after this work?
      Definitely--Lime Rock and Thompson Motorsports Park are my preferred local tracks

      Hope to hit up the latter at the end of this summer to help me dial in the suspension--details on that to follow.

    16. #66
      Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Turbo Benzina! View Post
      Can't remember the last time I read a build thread like this here in TCL.
      Definitely in!
      Same here.


    17. #67
      Member Pennywise's Avatar
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      Subscribed.

      I love these cars and when I bought my 9thgen, I was originally searching for a clean 8thgen sedan or a later DC5 RSX. They were so up there in price that it just made more sense to grab a new Si. This will be a fun car based on how you're putting it together
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      It's reassuring to know that when I finally hit the 98th percentile of US individual income, that I may then buy my dream car - a Toyota Avalon.

    18. #68
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      This. Is. Amazing. Builds like this are great. Well thought out, well written, realistic for the average guy. Just adding some HP to a Civic. I dig it. Thanks for taking the time to share this.

    19. #69
      Member Tokyosmash!'s Avatar
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      That's a hell of a gorgeous SSR replica for being an eBay buy, I'm impressed.

      Also, lol at "mil spec" cat, not like we are using an organization that drives vehicles regularly that are diesels which run on jet fuel and have prominent "emissions exempt" plaques on top of the motors

    20. #70
      Member cournot's Avatar
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      Apologies in advance--forgot my actual camera so these are some iPhone shots. Getting ready and taking inventory for the big week ahead at Innovative Motorworks, where the bulk of the parts will be installed and tuned. Turns out I have an academic conference that I have to attend back in Boston, so I unfortunately won't be able to hang around the shop and take photos. I pick the car up Thursday morning (fingers crossed!) and the next step is suspension!

      Here are the two last pieces of the engine puzzle:

      TracTuff custom oil pan baffles, in an RRC oil pan. Turns out Honda simply switched over to using the Japanese Type-R pans sometime in 2011, so all oil pans for this motor are now stamped "RRC". Was frankly shocked at how lightweight the pan is--probably only 5 or 6 lbs.





      Honda OE injectors (Denso) from an Acura RDX. 410cc with a supposedly better pattern than the 310cc injectors currently in the car. OE injectors would have been just over 100% IDC with all the bolt ons/cams being installed, so these are a fairly cheap/drop-in replacement (need to repin the connectors, but that's not too tough). No need for huge 750cc or 1000cc injectors, these will retain good idle quality



      Some quick updates on the brakes and tires after ~2K miles:

      1. If you're thinking about buying the Michelin PSS, do it. That's all I have to say. Quiet and they grip like mad, even for the narrow(ish) 215 section width of the OE fitment.
      2. No complaints about the brakes except for the frankly ridiculous amount of dust. I'm having to clean my wheels more than once a week to keep them looking reasonable. Love the stopping power and lack of noise, but the dust is killing me.

    21. #71
      Member compy222's Avatar
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      in case you were curious, AP1 s2000 cam specs are:

      Adv. duration: 295 / 309
      Dur at 1mm: 247 / 243
      Lift: 12.15mm / 11.1mm
      Lobe centerline: 98 deg ATDC / 100 deg BTDC

      Not too far off.
      Quote Originally Posted by capsaicin View Post
      AP1 S2000? I can not in good conscience talk you out of that. May your slip angle be great and your bed not be the couch!

    22. #72
      Member cournot's Avatar
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      Went back to Costco to have them check the tire balance since I felt a light vibration from the rear. Tech put the wheel on the balancer and the wheel was visibly out of round.

      I did not plan on buying new wheels. Thankfully OE replacements are 145 a pop, not sure if I should replace all four or just the two.

      Ugh.

    23. #73
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      In. Love the the OEM upgrades. I need a K24 in the S2000.

    24. #74
      Senior Member A.Wilder's Avatar
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      FV-QR

      saw this on my local CL, 8th gen sedan SI's are great looking imo.

      signatures are annoying, right?

    25. #75
      Member Pnuu's Avatar
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      Totally in for updates, I love a well-built NA daily driver.

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