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Next fun car help - Lotus or miata ?

3K views 47 replies 19 participants last post by  Kevin RS 
#1 ·
I'm looking at purchasing a fun car in the near future.

I have had a NA Miata. Really liked that car ! drove an NC Miata. Also really enjoyed that car - power retractable roof was kinda cool - not something I would consider buying though for my vehicle.


I have never driven the new ND Miata - looking for owners here, how do you like it so far? I'm sure it handles well but is it "fun" like the original. Loose suspension.


Does anyone here have an Elise ? I'm looking at a targa, non supercharged model.

Ultimately I need to go test drive both the ND Miata and Elise.


This car will be used mainly as a semi daily driver. Possibly some autocross / track work eventually. No real plans though. It will be a car to go on the 500 or so mile odd road trip maybe 1-2 times a year.

If anyone here has the elise, please comment on parts pricing/availability, how reliable have they been? Is it really like owning a kit car in the sense of fit / finish ?
I know the engine/trans is a Toyota but what about the electrical system? Do they leak? Etc.

I still haven't ruled out a ap2 s2000 either...

My personal opinion is the ND Miata is going to be the better choice. It would be nice to take the wife and our shiba inu out on the town. Run to the grocery store etc without having to worry to much about storage. I think the s2000 trunk is bigger than the nd miata and I'm sure it's bigger than the elise. My budget is 30k or less. Fun 2 door roadster that is relatively reliable. I don't mind replacing the alternator or what have you but I don't want do rebuild the front end every year either.

Thanks for the help all !
 
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#3 ·
I sold Lotuses for years, and have spent a ton of time around Elise's. My old demo car at work was an Elise for some time as well.

They leak a little bit. Varies car to car, storm to storm. Haven't heard of one with massive water intrusion. Drops here or there.

They're awful commuter cars. Depending on how semi your semi daily driving is, you'll want to think long and hard. Front and rear fiberglass clams don't have bumpers, and they're $5k each. Fender benders are expensive.

They're reliable, quick, handle abuse well, and the consumables are cheap when you track them. Aside from gauge cluster issues, the electrical system is simple and reliable. Parts are available, they're not too the moon expensive, but shipping times are usually a little slow.

The interiors are functional, with a lot of naked aluminum on display. Plastics are hard, but it all comes together well enough. Doesn't feel like it was just slapped together, but it's nothing fancy.

From a performance, cost, and reliability standpoint, I'd easily argue and win that it's the best road car Lotus has ever made.
 
#4 ·
#5 · (Edited)
I was the caretaker of an Exige S for a year (Same basic car with hardtop, slightly different styling, and supercharger).

You do not want to daily drive an Elise/Exige. Even as a slender healthy guy, getting in and out of one is kind of an event. They have HUGE door sills that are way higher than the seats. Exiting is like getting out of a bath tub- if a bath tub had a roof so you couldn't stand up first. It's positively hilarious if someone parks close next to you. Driving in traffic can be rather disconcerting- your head is lower than the top of the wheels of many trucks.

All that being said, they are absolutely a blast to drive. Much more raw than a Miata. The Exige S is also considerably more powerful. But they are second or third cars. Miatas, on the other hand, make fine daily drivers.
 
#16 ·
Reliable? Cheap to fix? Easy to work on? Insurance probably is not cheap either I imagine...

Just some of the reasons I can think of off the top of my head that keeps me away from the greatest machines out of Stuttgart

I do love them though! If I ever have the means I will own a mid 80's turbo 911. I had the poster on my wall as kid.
 
#19 ·
i have a friend who sold his s2000 and bought an exige. it's now 10yrs old at this point. He said, and I quote: i loved the s2000, but for different reasons. It felt like a tank compared to my exige. Also, the honda feels like it's put together well; while the lotus left half of the assembly to the customer. he explained he's got suspension bolts that need to be checked before track days and generally 2x a year. also said that other than a few recalls, the car has been dead reliable. one thing to look out for was cracks in the clamshell. it's very expensive to replace/repair, and since they are hand-laid fiberglass, it'll take close to a year to get a new one if it has to be replaced. he also called miatas and s2000s the gateway drugs into lotuses. he lastly said to check out britishspeed and lotus talk websites for info and help. he said the lotus community is super nice (way better than the vw and honda guys). and that someone even met up and went with him to the dealership to look over his exige with him before purchasing it.

lmk if you have more questions about it. he's a super nice guy himself, and happy to give advice.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Awesome ! Thanks for the info. I was actually looking at britishspeed's website about an hour or so ago. Registered on lotus talk this moring as well ! I have a truck for my primary vehicle but I feel the elise may be too much a race car , because race car !

Wonder if I could convince the wife on something like a used ariel atom haha

Talking to a buddy for 5 minutes about buying a lotus this morning leads to this recommendation lol

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-Lotus-...78d87550:g:PdsAAOSwHMJYGe5w&item=152351307088
 
#20 ·
The Exige S has been one of my attainable dream cars for a while. I didn't even bother with driving one knowing I'd have to buy it when I was fun car shopping. The fear of someone looking at a clamshell wrong and breaking it was just too much. I'm ok with what I ended up buying.
 
#25 ·
Everyone has done a good job making the point that the Mazda and Honda make a much better DD, and I could not agree more.

However, even a base Elise is a truly special car. Back in the day, I had a chance to drive one back to back with a Gallardo, 911 turbo, F430, and a buncha other really nice hardware. There was no letdown in fun factor getting into the 4-cyl Lotus! Later, a buddy of mine let me drive his around town (not during rush hour and I decided to ignore the risk of arrest for 30 min). You wouldn't expect it, but that was a great time too! That car is on a whole 'nother level compared to Miatas and S2000s for driving pleasure. It just is.

 
#27 ·
I'm on my second s2000, both have been ap2 (05 and now 06).

I had different reasons for purchase, and this car is my second. I will only commute in nice weather and my commute is only 6 miles.

My first one was my daily for 2.5 years and my commute was more similar to yours. The s2k is definitely liveable and can be enjoyable to drive on the street. The engine is really something special. The one I bought now is mainly weekend and track duty.

However, I'm now trying to sell it and get an NC Miata instead. Partially that's because I want an easier car to learn to drive on, and a (slightly) cheaper car to run and track, but also because driving the s2000 feels like serious business. Test driving Miatas I couldn't stop grinning. It was just more fun. The car is lighter and more tossable, and really feels more like a toy than a car.

If I could I'd have both because the s2k is something special. But unless you're really driving it, the experience is mediocre. Parts are getting more expensive, low mileage ones are climbing in value, and it's just a different proposition. NC Miata are cheap and plentiful and you don't have to stress about the car as much or worry about putting miles on it or losing value because they've already depreciated anyway.

So as a 2x s2000 owner I'd say make sure to test drive NC and Nd Miatas before making any decisions. Vs the NC, the s2k feels like it's better put together with higher quality materials but of course it's a higher cost of entry. Also keep in mind the interior was designed almost 20 years ago and not much changed. I like it, but it's not for everyone.

Getting a later Miata will have features like heated seats, Bluetooth, etc.

I want a lotus but I haven't driven one yet. Boxsters are a blast to drive too but they might not meet all your criteria (although they are more liveable than s2ks).
 
#30 ·
. . .

I want a lotus but I haven't driven one yet. Boxsters are a blast to drive too but they might not meet all your criteria (although they are more liveable than s2ks).
I used to have a Boxster as well. I don't know how I failed to make that recommendation. They're a blast to drive and feel more special than a Miata, but are actually very capable dailies. The front trunk, in particular, is about twice the size of anything in it's class and being so deep makes it way more practical. Plus you have another one in the back. I bought mine with 10,000 miles and put another 70k on with no problems at all and nothing spent beyond tires and oil changes.
 
#29 ·
I'm in the exact same boat and having a tough time deciding which way to go. I've driven an ND an elise and an exige. Mine would only be a weekend/autocross car and not see any commuting. The ND is far more competitive in it's class than the elise in SCCA autocross at the moment. It's a better all around car, but nowhere near as special as the elise. Used ND's are approaching 20k and will keep depreciating. The elise has the higher buy in at 30-35k, but will likely stay there or continue to appreciate.

The other problem I'm having is that there are plenty of used ND's popping up locally, but I'd likely have to get an elise from the other side of the country to get the one I want. I've never had a desire to own an S2000 and a boxster/cayman scares me off with maintenance costs - not sure if I should be looking at anything else in this class too. I've already owned two Z06s and haven't written another corvette off entirely, but I think it's time for something different.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Was able to do a short test drive of a nd last night. Didn't really get to wind it out on any nice roads but around town it felt great. It's a very practical car (for a 2 seater convertible small call).

I had my carry on and laptop bag with me from work that day and both fit in the trunk with room to spare ! More room than the NA Miata had.

The ergonomics are great! I feel as if I have more room - especially leg and hip room than I did in my NA.

It was "peppy" ! torque at low rpms was nice and I could see it being a fun car on some winding roads / track use. At 5280 ASL it's felt slow past 4-5k but that's pretty much any naturally aspirated care here.

I really need to go back and get an extended test drive in. Great car for the 15 or so minutes that I had it. Salesman wouldn't STFU though...knew nothing about the car and just wanted to talk about the weather - literally heard this 5 times "it's going to snow tomorrow but these miatas are well known for having great traction in the snow"
ugh...salespeople lol
 
#39 ·
I have never driven the new ND Miata - looking for owners here, how do you like it so far? I'm sure it handles well but is it "fun" like the original. Loose suspension.
I don't have a new one, but I've got two NA Miatas and a friend works at Mazda and was involved with the development of the ND. Mazda has an original NA Miata that they would use to benchmark the feel of the new chassis. They'd drive the NA Miata on a stretch of road and then drive it immediately afterward in the ND. Every choice they made the the balance of the car was made with the intent to keep it as close as possible to the NA Miata. They also benchmarked it against the original Lotus Elan and newer cars outside its category (FR-S) for comparisons.



The Elise is far more advanced than any of the Miatas, so let's not pretend the Miata is that good. However, the only thing that appears to plague the Elise is the replacement cost of the front or rear clam shell. Doesn't matter how amazing you are at driving, but if someone in a Bro-Dozer backs into the front of your Elise while parallel parking, you'd possibly be at risk for totaling the car.
 
#41 ·
I love the Exige S, but even at 5'-9" and 170 lbs I find it a PITA to get in and out of, and I can't imagine taking my wife out on a date or for a drive in it. So I suspect you would find the Elise tough as a DD in teh summer and hard to use on date night (a woman in a skirt getting in and out of an Elise? She will not be happy with you). Also, and Elise really isn't enough "roadster" if you really want the top-down, almost-a-motorcycle feel.

I beg you to go test drive a Boxster S, 2007 or newer. I think you'd get the power, the handling, the feel, and all you want in one package. 2009 Version if you want some extra goodies.



And go Boxster Spyder 2011 if you really want a car you'll never regret.

 
#42 ·
Price aside. As far as overall driving experience which did you prefer the more "fun" low speed with "loose handling" of the nd or the elise with much better tight handling, both are momentum cars but I think the ND powerband was much more liveable , at least that is what I gathered from my short test drive.
I never drove the elise on the street - just at an autocross. I did drive both Exige S and ND on the street and can compare those two. I honestly think the ND would be more fun for street use. Much lower limits and a friendlier powerband really help there. I'm a firm believer of the slow car fast vs fast car slow for street use. I had way more fun in my NA miata than my C6Z06 when driving around town. You really have to keep the revs high in the lotus which isn't ideal on the street. The limits are also crazy high so you won't be sliding it around unless you're going way faster than you should be.

The Elise is competitive in SSP, XP, and SSM- just not stock classes.
I should have clarified that I meant the stock classes. For a car that still sees street use - anything competitive in even SSP will be borderline unusable for anything else. I drove an SSM Elise this year and it was ridiculous, but 100% useless as a street car.
 
#44 ·
My personal opinion is the ND Miata is going to be the better choice. It would be nice to take the wife and our shiba inu out on the town. Run to the grocery store etc without having to worry to much about storage. I think the s2000 trunk is bigger than the nd miata and I'm sure it's bigger than the elise. My budget is 30k or less. Fun 2 door roadster that is relatively reliable. I don't mind replacing the alternator or what have you but I don't want do rebuild the front end every year either.
pics of shiba inu please
 
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