What's Wrong With BMW? - Page 3
Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    Welcome to VWvortex - The Volkswagen Enthusiast Website.
    You're currently browsing VWvortex site as a guest. Please sign up or sign in and take part in the conversation. VWvortex has over 750,000+ registered users discussing a wide variety of Volkswagen related topics. Take a minute to sign up to enjoy all the features of VWvortex.
    The Car Lounge
    Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
    Results 51 to 75 of 287
    1. #51
      Member Maroon's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 10th, 2014
      Location
      N. Miss
      Posts
      384
      They started chasing sales to beat MB and Lexus for the luxury crown. Used to be all their cars were good drivers, better than the competition. They're just German Camrys without the reliability now. Of course all BMW wants to do is sell a three year lease anyway. Don't need much reliability for that.

    2. #52
      Senior Member Iroczgirl's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 17th, 2007
      Location
      Bend, OR
      Posts
      30,148
      Quote Originally Posted by Senior Member View Post
      They are trying to sell as many 30/40k BMW's to people who want to say I drive a "B.M.W."
      Yeah. It's not working out for them though.
      Lots of VW stuff|Rare Scirocco parts!
      The family: '55 Ford 351C, '70 TR6 262Olds, '80 Rabbit AAZ, '84 C30 350, '88 Scirocco 9A, '97 Hardbody KA24E, '01 TJ 150AMC.
      Quote Originally Posted by Crimping Is Easy View Post
      You're always better off with a Citroën.™

    3. #53
      Member TangoRed's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 7th, 2005
      Location
      Seattle, WA
      Posts
      8,896
      This thread is really amusing now that I look at it again. BMW was the best selling brand in 2015. They have one rough year in 2016 and everyone's acting like they've been on the decline for several years now from a sales perspective.

      EDIT: Luxury car brand in the U.S., that is

      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      If Benz keeps up the game of more stuff for less money they will risk their cache
      I think you meant cachet.

      Quote Originally Posted by RichardToronto View Post
      So true. They're already losing it. So is BMW in that sense. They're so common now...


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      I think they're pushing $100k+ S-class's still with ease so I think we're good.
      Last edited by TangoRed; 01-21-2017 at 12:26 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

    4. #54
      Member GLI Dan's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 28th, 2006
      Location
      South Florida
      Posts
      4,490
      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      This thread is really amusing now that I look at it again. BMW was the best selling brand in 2015. They have one rough year in 2016 and everyone's acting like they've been on the decline for several years now from a sales perspective.

      .
      That is news to me. The F chassis cars were a let down from a driving perspective in comparison to the e46 and e90 in my opinion. Are they quieter and more comfortable? Sure. Do they post higher skid pad numbers? I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me. The thing is, the F series cars lack a certain intangible feel/drive that existed in the predecessors.
      Quote Originally Posted by DzlDub View Post
      Cars are ****ing awesome, anyone who doesn't want a car is a communist.
      Disclaimer: Generally, I strongly dislike people.
      Prior Vehicles: MkIV GLI - e46 330ci

    5. #55
      Member TangoRed's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 7th, 2005
      Location
      Seattle, WA
      Posts
      8,896
      Quote Originally Posted by GLI Dan View Post
      That is news to me. The F chassis cars were a let down from a driving perspective in comparison to the e46 and e90 in my opinion. Are they quieter and more comfortable? Sure. Do they post higher skid pad numbers? I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me. The thing is, the F series cars lack a certain intangible feel/drive that existed in the predecessors.
      Oh I agree. I owned an E46 330i and an E60. I no longer have interest in BMW's. But that doesn't mean they're as awful from an outlook perspective as people are suggesting. The early press reviews on the G30 5-series have been positive though, so I think BMW will be just fine in the long run if the following G cars follow the trend.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

    6. #56
      The lack of steering feel or "je ne sais quoi" isn't why sales are down. Get inside a new audi or MB and they make the BMW feel old. The F30 is just getting old in the tooth, but still drives WAY better then any comparable audi/merc. My one complaint with BMW is that unless you load up the car, it feels like a really cheap car. For example, unless you get the Msport pkg, the car looks like a camry. With audi, the Sline pkg really doesn't change the car much and is less expensice in the first place. If you build an Audi vs F30 right now, you get much more bang for your buck and a lot more tech.

    7. #57
      Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 18th, 2012
      Location
      Montreal, Quebec
      Posts
      7,692
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      Only if you're ignoring a little thing called driving.
      Cayennes drive well too.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    8. #58
      Feels Like the First Time DeeJoker's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 5th, 2001
      Location
      People's Republic of Marylandstan
      Posts
      6,528
      Quote Originally Posted by spockcat
      BMW hasn't had a good designer since Wilhelm Hofmeister.
      Says the guy with a 2011 BMW...

      Quote Originally Posted by vwpiloto View Post
      I recall Bangle saying something like there needs to be a design revolution, followed by a period of evolution, and then another revolution. I think it's been about 15 years or so since the revolution, and now it's time for another one.
      You may be onto something there.

      By the time Bangle's flame-surfacing worked its way through the entire auto industry, BMW was onto the next thing.

      Unfortunately, that next thing appears to be a wholesale dilution of the brand into making something for every niche, and making cars without a niche.

      Maybe old spockcat was right. Ein wurst...
      The above post may contain opinions, coarse language, offensive terms, spelling mistakes, and/or improper grammar. You have been warned.

    9. #59
      I don't know any devoted BMW people. There are old guys in the neighborhood who have had a new S class every 3 years since they made management 40 years ago, wives have had new wagon and now ML for the same kind of time, and one friends dad has 4 SLs, gets a new one every 10 years or so.

      Another neighbor just bought his 8th W123 diesel. He's owned and maintained them since he bought one new in 76, no interest in newer ones.

      I don't know anyone who is BMW for life like that. I know they exist, but I haven't met any

    10. #60
      the pinnacle of design!


    11. #61
      Quote Originally Posted by spockcat View Post
      BMW hasn't had a good designer since Wilhelm Hofmeister.
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bracq
      Touareg Hybrids are pretty nice, and the warm fuzzies I felt while driving the hybrid was actually the fingers of all of the German tax payers trying to reach into my wallet to get their money back. (Brendan@bwalkauto)

      Quote Originally Posted by Wellington P Funk View Post
      Simpleton? I think you've both got me mixed up with someone else.

    12. #62
      Member
      Join Date
      Apr 20th, 2002
      Location
      Virginia Beach
      Posts
      444
      I meet so many people who admire bmw, and want one, but are afraid they'll inevitably be a money pit...

    13. #63
      Member B20VTEC's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 27th, 2005
      Location
      Bergen County NJ
      Posts
      1,744
      The cars have lost a little feel, and the competition has caught up in some ways that's about all there is to it.

      Little exaggeration in here I think...

      i've driven an older E90 M3, and owned a 335i for 3 years and the only thing the new car doesn't improve on is sound, and a little feel. Compared to the E90/92, the new F chassis itself is much improved, it is more responsive, agile, rigid, lighter, the car is way faster, and it looks better. It feels more like a sports car than it used to actually.


      Never mind the fact the M2 is a seriously amazing car as well. Sure, the styling of the 2 series is hit or miss but you cannot deny how good of a car it is.

      The complaints/comments in here are also interesting because Merc's are not without its faults and Audi doesn't make anything that touches the M cars.

    14. #64
      Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 4th, 2003
      Location
      West Coast, not that west coast. Bay area, not that bay area.
      Posts
      35,924
      Quote Originally Posted by fbobberts View Post
      Responsible for the E23 7 series? That is nice and all but Hofmeister was responsible for the BMW New Class and the Hofmeister-Knick. The BMW New Class completely turned the company around and eventually became the E9. And the Hofmeister-Knick is still used as a BMW styling trait to this day.






    15. #65
      Quote Originally Posted by B20VTEC View Post
      The cars have lost a little feel, and the competition has caught up in some ways that's about all there is to it.

      Little exaggeration in here I think...

      i've driven an older E90 M3, and owned a 335i for 3 years and the only thing the new car doesn't improve on is sound, and a little feel. Compared to the E90/92, the new F chassis itself is much improved, it is more responsive, agile, rigid, lighter, the car is way faster, and it looks better. It feels more like a sports car than it used to actually.


      Never mind the fact the M2 is a seriously amazing car as well. Sure, the styling of the 2 series is hit or miss but you cannot deny how good of a car it is.

      The complaints/comments in here are also interesting because Merc's are not without its faults and Audi doesn't make anything that touches the M cars.
      The reality is a lot of manufacturers "caught up" to BMW like 5 years ago, and have now outright surpassed them. Other manufacturers are making serious strides to put out really great, feature-laden, solid, reliable products. At the same time, BMW has just been phoning it in with boring styling, making things soft and numb, and catering to the $399 lease special crowd. BMW has been largely asleep at the wheel, except when it comes to sticking ///M badges on everything in sight, still trying to cash in on that 30 year old reputation. Problem is, people are finally starting to wake up and realize it. And at the end of the day, BMW still can't be bothered to even bother TRYING to build a reliable car, because they don't give a crap about anything that happens beyond the lease period since people get trapped in a heavily subsidized lease cycle. When residuals are 67% for three years, ain't nobody going to buy.

      In a lot of ways, BMW reminds me of turn of the decade VW. While everyone else was doing the best they could, VW was going in the wrong direction, and BMW seems to be doing the same. No effort to increase quality, reliability, or materials, but all the effort in the world to build a bland vehicle for every niche and sub niche possible, so that the brand is so diluted they don't have any real focus anymore. VW of course just made their cars crappier, so they are the worse offender for sure, but still.
      Last edited by puma1552; 01-21-2017 at 06:38 PM.

    16. #66
      Member SoSuMi's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 14th, 2004
      Location
      Akron, OH
      Posts
      1,003
      Quote Originally Posted by B20VTEC View Post
      The cars have lost a little feel, and the competition has caught up in some ways that's about all there is to it.

      Little exaggeration in here I think...
      .
      I had a 2014 series touring and recently swapped it for a 2017 touring. The driving dynamics have been dialed up a notch (or two) over the past few years. The run flats no longer feel like cement blocks... they sure did on my 2014.

      The interior isn't the best aesthetically but the ergonomics are great. The front seats have a multitude of adjustments, including the side bolsters, so you can really dial in the fit. And they are very comfy. Driving position is on the money too.

      But speaking of money, you really do have to check off a lotta boxes to get the good stuff, like the M steering wheel and adaptive suspension.

      Too bad that there probably won't be a G21 three series touring coming to NA. Wagons with low roof lines are so nice for roof topping outdoor toys.
      ____________________

      Byron

    17. #67
      Member ZPayne's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 7th, 2014
      Location
      Frederick, MD
      Posts
      3,554
      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
      the pinnacle of design!

      Posting a base 32k, 320i lease special spec is not exactly fair. The base C300's and A4 ultra FWD models look equally dull.

      The M2/M3/M4 are all still fantastic drivers cars and are full of what has always made BMW great. The M2 is one of the best cars they've ever made, and very reasonably priced, at that.
      Last edited by ZPayne; 01-21-2017 at 07:45 PM.

    18. #68
      Quote Originally Posted by ZPayne View Post
      Posting a base 32k, 320i lease special spec is not exactly fair. The base C300's and A4 ultra FWD models look equally dull.

      The M2/M3/M4 are all still fantastic drivers cars and are full of what has always made BMW great. The M2 is one of the best cars they've ever made, and very reasonably priced, at that.
      But 90% of what they sell are base lease spec cars like pictured above.

      Why do I need to spend $80k to get a fantastic drivers car from BMW now? Having owned both an E30 325iS and an E36 325i, you used to get a great drivers car in the base models. Now you have to spend like $80k for a good 3 series. I think I saw a loaded M4 convertible with Individual paint crest $100k...the whole notion of a $100k 3-series even being possible to build out is like a royal **** you from BMW to the consumer.

      What made BMW great was that you used to get a great drivers car at any price point, not just the absurd ones of today, pretty much all of which are matched or beaten for half the price in any other showroom. The pricing of the M2 might not be terrible, but the M3/M4 are a bit of a joke once you put any real options on them.

      EDIT: That said I do still think there is one sweet spot in BMW's lineup - a RWD 320i with manuel, lighting (fawk halogens), track handling, and sport. Keep the options light and that's probably the purest BMW they build and the price isn't too bad either.
      Last edited by puma1552; 01-21-2017 at 08:00 PM.

    19. #69
      Member vwpiloto's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 26th, 2006
      Location
      Orange County, CA
      Posts
      8,826
      Quote Originally Posted by SoSuMi View Post
      I had a 2014 series touring and recently swapped it for a 2017 touring. The driving dynamics have been dialed up a notch (or two) over the past few years. The run flats no longer feel like cement blocks... they sure did on my 2014.
      Mind writing a review of your 2017 330i wagon? Been thinking of one versus a new Allroad.

    20. #70
      Member
      Join Date
      May 7th, 2010
      Location
      Toronto, Canada
      Posts
      10,355
      Quote Originally Posted by DrewSXR View Post
      Didn't BMW say their customers really don't want feedback through the steering wheel?
      Did people actually say that? That's so weird.

      I love when a brand that used to stand for something ends up trying to stand for everything and in the process stands for nothing.

      I uses to think BMWs were awesome. And dreamt of owning an M3. Now the M badge and BMW in general mean nothing to me. And I have no aspiration of ever getting one. I'd sooner get into an AMG or RS badge.

      You reap what you sow.
      '89 VW Jetta GLI | '02 VW GTI 1.8T | '05 Porsche Boxster | '05 Ducati Sport1000 | '06 VW GTI | '07 Porsche Cayman | '08 Ducati 848 | '14 Porsche 911 | '17 VW Golf R

    21. #71
      Member
      Join Date
      Dec 16th, 2002
      Location
      Toronto, Ontario, Canada
      Posts
      6,787
      As some others have noted, there's nothing "wrong" with BMW of today per se...It's just that so many other manufacturers have caught up with them in terms of styling, driving dynamics, and luxury.

    22. #72
      Member Stevo12's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 27th, 2015
      Location
      Hartford, CT
      Posts
      1,275
      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      They are all fat and ugly. Bring back the E46 and we will talk. Not everyone has M2 cash. BMW has been obsessed with the badge-whore crowd for too long. They are literally more beige than Toyota.
      It's because they figured out that those people buy a lot more cars than a bunch of car nerds who jerk off to their entry level cars from 20 years ago.

      Thankfully, Mazda hired all their engineers and are planning to bring a RWD Mazda3 to market. TCL will implode shortly thereafter.

    23. #73
      Member TangoRed's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 7th, 2005
      Location
      Seattle, WA
      Posts
      8,896
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      Did people actually say that? That's so weird.
      I don't think its weird at all. Non-enthusiasts get behind the wheel and then ask why there's so much vibration coming through the steering wheel.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

    24. #74
      Member
      Join Date
      Nov 19th, 2006
      Location
      Raleigh, NC
      Posts
      2,927
      Quote Originally Posted by Stevo12 View Post
      Thankfully, Mazda hired all their engineers and are planning to bring a RWD Mazda3 to market. TCL will implode shortly thereafter.
      I would buy that.

    25. #75
      Member 88c900t's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 6th, 2014
      Location
      "typical wisconsin rust"
      Posts
      6,917
      Quote Originally Posted by Merckx View Post
      I meet so many people who admire bmw, and want one, but are afraid they'll inevitably be a money pit...
      They are, after the E39 and E46. The days of BMW building a reliable car are long gone, and their current reliability issues are inexcusable in this day and age. All the other manufacturers have caught up in terms of driving dynamics, too.

      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post

      EDIT: That said I do still think there is one sweet spot in BMW's lineup - a RWD 328i with manuel, lighting (fawk halogens), track handling, and sport. Keep the options light and that's probably the purest BMW they build and the price isn't too bad either.
      Fixed. The 320i engine is a turd-it has lighter duty conn rods (IIRC) than the 328 that fail under a light tune.

      The one reasonably priced BMW I like is the 228i.
      Typical forum guy with busted third-hand cars.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kiyokix View Post
      I like this guy, I like this guy a lot.
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
      Quote Originally Posted by volvohutter View Post
      You'll always get a pass due to your history of owning classy and sophisticated automobiles

    Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast