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    1. #1
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      Stop/Start Systems

      Why do so many dislike cars with automatic stop/start? It might be mildly annoying(although I don't think so),but saving gas is good for your wallet and good for the environment...What is so bad about that? I wish my car had it...yet so many want to disable it...

    2. #2
      Member GoHomePossum's Avatar
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      Never bothered me.
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    3. #3
      Member TheDeckMan's Avatar
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      Additional wear.
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    4. #4
      Geriatric Member Aonarch's Avatar
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      It isn't perfect, because it doesn't have the foresight on how long you will be stopped for. If you are in stop and go traffic, only coming to a halt for a few seconds it seems like an absolute waste. But it is excellent for long red lights. I am totally ok with a stop- start system that is easy to turn off, like the newest gen CTS. I found the stop-start was very good, smooth, and didn't become annoying.

    5. #5
      Member NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      How do these systems operate? Is it only used when you are on the brake? Once you let of it starts again?
      Do these work on manual transmissions?
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    6. #6
      Member LT1M21Stingray's Avatar
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      I'd rather listen to the rough idle my big cam gets.
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    7. #7
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      How do these systems operate? Is it only used when you are on the brake? Once you let of it starts again?
      Do these work on manual transmissions?
      I got this on my 15 Boxster but usually put the car in sport mode which turns off stop &go and my car is a manuel. The very rare times I use it,it starts the car when I put it in gear

    8. #8
      Senior Member Son's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      How do these systems operate? Is it only used when you are on the brake? Once you let of it starts again?
      Do these work on manual transmissions?
      Automatic: Stop and the engine will shut off immediately. If you stop with feathering the brake pedal, it will not shut off the engine. As it shuts off the engine immediately, it will do it even when you stop to just change direction while doing your parking manouvering. So yes, it can be very annoying sometimes. But there is of course the switch to disable it (however, the setting will be reset when you switch off the ignition).

      Manual: Stop, put the car in neutral and let the clutch pedal up and the engine will shut off. So it's a much less annoying feature in a manual car.

      (Disclaimer: This is how it works in VW's.)

    9. #9
      Senior Member Son's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by LT1M21Stingray View Post
      I'd rather listen to the rough idle my big cam gets.
      #murica

    10. #10

    11. #11
      Had a rental escape with it in Austin, longest time I spent with a vehicle that had it. Was weird at first but got used to it quickly.

      The only downside was with how hot it was and the AC shutting off you had waves of hot/cold air blowing on you which got annoying very fast.

    12. #12
      A/C is a big issue depending on implementation for those in hot climates. When it's over 100F, it's hard for the A/C on many cars to keep up even with the motor idling. You can end up roasting in a bad traffic jam.

    13. #13
      Member esrballa's Avatar
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      How often do the starters for these systems go out? It would seem like they would be burned out at an insane rate compared to non stop/start cars.

    14. #14
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      We had a Malibu rental in LA last week. It worked based on how hard you pushed the brake. Push it to the floor the car shut off. Release it a bit and the car would start back up. I figured this out a few days into driving it. It made it much more convenient when sitting at a red waiting for a hole in traffic to complete my right on red.

      It's may understanding, a heartier battery, and a more robust starter are required to make these systems cost effective in the long run.

    15. #15
      Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      The only ones I have experiences are those in Benz and BMW. The Benz one (in the CLA250) is horrible. Very abrupt and uncomfortable for everyone in the car. The BMW one is much better, but still has a pretty lazy execution.

      Overall, I wouldn't want to make the car less reliable if it does cause extra wear. I don't want to be stranded somewhere without a starter motor because I had to save 3 cents of gas.
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    16. #16
      Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      I have this in the m3, though the default setting is "off". I tried it a couple of times. I don't see much of an advantage of it given how little I drive the car. Maybe I would get used to it, but I don't have enough interest in it, nor do I see enough value in the feature to actively turn it on every time I'm in the car.

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    17. #17
      Quote Originally Posted by LG6R View Post
      How often do you need to replace the starter on such cars though?
      They typically use a heavier-duty starter which is DESIGNED to handle the much more frequent use. It shouldn't be an issue. Time will tell, of course.

      There has also been rampant speculation about its effect on the battery. Normally stop/start is disabled if the engine is cold - that's when engines are hard to start. A hot start doesn't take much effort. And ... the state of charge of the battery is another factor that the control system takes into account. If the battery is not at a certain minimum charge level (almost fully charged), stop/start is disabled. Again, it shouldn't be an issue.

      Then, of course, there's Mazda's Skyactiv implementation that doesn't even use the starter motor at all ...

      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      A/C is a big issue depending on implementation for those in hot climates. When it's over 100F, it's hard for the A/C on many cars to keep up even with the motor idling. You can end up roasting in a bad traffic jam.
      And the state of the climate control is another factor in the control system for start/stop. If there is high demand for A/C (or heat) the good systems will leave the engine running. The even better systems (only on cars with full hybrid powertrain due to the load!) use electrically operated A/C which is completely independent of the engine so it doesn't matter if the engine is running or stopped (unless the battery is below a certain charge - in which case the engine stays running to charge it).

      Most of the time ... the engineers who design these systems have thought of all this. They maybe haven't thought of everything, but they've thought about all of the above.

      Quote Originally Posted by import600 View Post
      We had a Malibu rental in LA last week. It worked based on how hard you pushed the brake. Push it to the floor the car shut off. Release it a bit and the car would start back up. I figured this out a few days into driving it. It made it much more convenient when sitting at a red waiting for a hole in traffic to complete my right on red.

      It's may understanding, a heartier battery, and a more robust starter are required to make these systems cost effective in the long run.
      Yep and my experience agrees with yours. I had an Impala rental with the 2.5 4 cylinder with start/stop - probably same powertrain you had. It's sensitive to how hard you press the brake. The normal amount of brake pressure to hold the car stopped against a torque converter is enough to stop the engine. If you ease up on the brake - not even fully releasing it, just easing up, as if to request creeping forward - it starts the engine. In a normal traffic-light situation the engine is running before your foot even makes it to the accelerator pedal. Cold engine? it stays running. A/C on "max"? it stays running. If you do the creep thing against light brake pedal pressure it leaves the engine running in anticipation of you repeatedly creeping in stuck-traffic conditions to avoid short-cycling the engine and starter motor. Stopped with turn signal on - it stays running in anticipation of you possibly having to make a quicker-than-normal move. I found the system to be seamless and unobtrusive.

      I haven't driven any BMW or Mercedes that have this system ... those rentals are above my pay grade ...

    18. #18
      It depends highly on the car. My 2000 Honda Insight had a very very very smooth engine and the start stop was near unnoticeable. Our loaner 2016 BMW 3 series sucked at start stop. I would be ok with it in light traffic and red lights. I would be annoyed with it for bumper to bumper traffic crawl.

    19. #19
      Geriatric Member Aonarch's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
      They typically use a heavier-duty starter which is DESIGNED to handle the much more frequent use. It shouldn't be an issue. Time will tell, of course.

      There has also been rampant speculation about its effect on the battery. Normally stop/start is disabled if the engine is cold - that's when engines are hard to start. A hot start doesn't take much effort. And ... the state of charge of the battery is another factor that the control system takes into account. If the battery is not at a certain minimum charge level (almost fully charged), stop/start is disabled. Again, it shouldn't be an issue.

      Then, of course, there's Mazda's Skyactiv implementation that doesn't even use the starter motor at all ...



      And the state of the climate control is another factor in the control system for start/stop. If there is high demand for A/C (or heat) the good systems will leave the engine running. The even better systems (only on cars with full hybrid powertrain due to the load!) use electrically operated A/C which is completely independent of the engine so it doesn't matter if the engine is running or stopped (unless the battery is below a certain charge - in which case the engine stays running to charge it).

      Most of the time ... the engineers who design these systems have thought of all this. They maybe haven't thought of everything, but they've thought about all of the above.



      Yep and my experience agrees with yours. I had an Impala rental with the 2.5 4 cylinder with start/stop - probably same powertrain you had. It's sensitive to how hard you press the brake. The normal amount of brake pressure to hold the car stopped against a torque converter is enough to stop the engine. If you ease up on the brake - not even fully releasing it, just easing up, as if to request creeping forward - it starts the engine. In a normal traffic-light situation the engine is running before your foot even makes it to the accelerator pedal. Cold engine? it stays running. A/C on "max"? it stays running. If you do the creep thing against light brake pedal pressure it leaves the engine running in anticipation of you repeatedly creeping in stuck-traffic conditions to avoid short-cycling the engine and starter motor. Stopped with turn signal on - it stays running in anticipation of you possibly having to make a quicker-than-normal move. I found the system to be seamless and unobtrusive.

      I haven't driven any BMW or Mercedes that have this system ... those rentals are above my pay grade ...
      Agreed, the GM systems are very good.

      The BMWs that I have driven are ROUGH.


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    20. #20
      Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Aonarch View Post
      Agreed, the GM systems are very good.

      The BMWs that I have driven are ROUGH.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Agree. I remember I had a 528i loaner car a few years ago and the engine turning back on would rock the car. Mercedes V6/V8 implementations have been great in my experience along with the GM cars.
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    21. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
      I haven't driven any BMW or Mercedes that have this system ... those rentals are above my pay grade ...
      Excellent explanation, and I've always wanted to quote GoFaster since our names are related

    22. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      The only ones I have experiences are those in Benz and BMW. The Benz one (in the CLA250) is horrible. Very abrupt and uncomfortable for everyone in the car. The BMW one is much better, but still has a pretty lazy execution.
      The only one that I had experience was in a 2004 Toyota Prius, which had no issues. But being a hybrid presumably makes the stop-start experience different from when it is used in a non-hybrid.

    23. #23
      Senior Member Son's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      A/C is a big issue depending on implementation for those in hot climates. When it's over 100F, it's hard for the A/C on many cars to keep up even with the motor idling. You can end up roasting in a bad traffic jam.
      My VW starts up pretty soon after the engine has been shut off by the start/stop system, if it's a hot day. I bet it's because it won't let the cabin to start heating up.

    24. #24
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    25. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      The only ones I have experiences are those in Benz and BMW. The Benz one (in the CLA250) is horrible. Very abrupt and uncomfortable for everyone in the car.
      Agreed. My parents have an MB E350 (I think, next up from c-class), and it is very noticeable. My mom dislikes it and often turns it off (usually after it happens and reminds her that is turned back on).

      My Fusion Hybrid isn't noticeable, but then again, it was designed to do that from the start.

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