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    1. #51
      Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      C/D did an excellent piece on this a few years back. If anyone is nerdy enough to remember the issue, I will happily scan and post it from my print copy.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    2. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      C/D did an excellent piece on this a few years back. If anyone is nerdy enough to remember the issue, I will happily scan and post it from my print copy.
      Do you mean this?

      http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ined-tech-dept

    3. #53
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      Quote Originally Posted by masa8888 View Post
      I hate it on my car for 2 reasons:

      2. Default setting for auto stop-start is "on", which cannot be permanently switched off.
      On your Audi? If I turn it off on mine it permanently remembers and leaves it off until I decide to turn it back on.

      As someone else stated, I wish it would only turn off if it knew you were going to be sitting at a light for a long time.

    4. #54
      Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by tjl View Post
      That appears to be it, but the print version was much longer and more detailed.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    5. #55
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      C/D described it as a "simple way to save fuel". And I agree.....Which is why I can't understand all the hate over this device...I wish my car had it.

    6. #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by Merckx View Post
      C/D described it as a "simple way to save fuel". And I agree.....Which is why I can't understand all the hate over this device...I wish my car had it.
      On some cars, it's integration isn't very good and very noticeable. And if you have to merge into a busy highway from a stop, some people aren't comfortable with the pause before you get power. That was the impression I got.

    7. #57
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      Quote Originally Posted by mhjett View Post
      Despite all of these "parameters" you speak of, I'm curious to see what stop/start does to the long-term durability of highly-boosted, relatively-small engines in big, heavy cars (XC90, for example, comes to mind).
      Boost levels are not what causes the heat problem, so high vs low boost is not a thing. Small engine relying on that boost and cramming lots of air through a tiny exhaust housing is more an issue for the heat than the boost itself.

      The XC90 and the GTI of the poster above are both watercooled, both with electronic pumps to circulate coolant through the turbo after the car shuts off and that isn't even needed as coolant will flow around from hot to cold to hot on its own cooling the turbo.

      While there have been issues with oil on some turbo cars in recentish years (early a4/passat 1.8t) that was mostly due to using regular oil and long intervals with too small of a sump, the NA engines of the same era had issues as well so the turbo was just the icing on the cake not the root of the problem.

      There is really no reason to be worried about coking oil on a modern turbo car just due to start stop.

      I'd venture to guess if the car is running that hard/hot that it also knows and is going to keep it on to help bring temps down, as in it would disable start stop on its own.

    8. #58
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      Quote Originally Posted by Egz View Post
      On some cars, it's integration isn't very good and very noticeable. And if you have to merge into a busy highway from a stop, some people aren't comfortable with the pause before you get power. That was the impression I got.
      I only drive turbo cars so I"m used to a slight delay.. the delay in the escape we had was long enough to be very noticeable each time. So even if we got used to it there was still the distraction of oh it started up again at each take off. Hopefully no one gets a ticket for distracted driving

      So my sort of issue with it is inline with your impression, likely others.

    9. #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Veedubya View Post
      On your Audi? If I turn it off on mine it permanently remembers and leaves it off until I decide to turn it back on.

      As someone else stated, I wish it would only turn off if it knew you were going to be sitting at a light for a long time.
      Yeah. I wonder if it's a model specific thing, because I was able to turn it off permanently on a co-workers Q5, and the dealer told me that I wouldn't be able to leave it off on the A7.

    10. #60
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tdi13golf View Post
      Checks calendar. Confirms it's 2017. Yes the auto-stop start comes on turbo cars. Modern cars have computers and sensors that monitor the heat. Auto-stop has many different parameters for safe use. To include too cold or too hot ranges. To low of. Battery voltage. Along with many other variables.
      So then it would never stop a turbo car for your normal light? Id prefer to idle my turbo car down for a good min or two.

    11. #61
      Whine Connoisseur WhineMCABasket2.0t's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Veedubya View Post
      On your Audi? If I turn it off on mine it permanently remembers and leaves it off until I decide to turn it back on.

      As someone else stated, I wish it would only turn off if it knew you were going to be sitting at a light for a long time.
      It's a button on my BMW so I could reactivate it if I ever wanted to without menu diving. But I wouldn't.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    12. #62
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      Quote Originally Posted by jszucs View Post
      So then it would never stop a turbo car for your normal light?
      It can stop your turbo car all it wants at a light with no issue...

      Don't ignore the it's 2017 part of his post, it is very important to his comment.

      Heck it applied in 2007 too had this come up then when your car was made.

    13. #63
      Quote Originally Posted by jszucs View Post
      So then it would never stop a turbo car for your normal light? Id prefer to idle my turbo car down for a good min or two.
      Very highly educated engineers who tested the system in multi-million dollar labs just might know that it's ok.

      The oil temp of a modern car changes very very little from operating normally to idle. Water temp doesn't even change much in a modern car during normal driving. Plus you should be off the accelerations if not fully off the throttle for a several seconds as you properly noticed the intersection or redlight stoppage ahead.

      The VW turbo Jetta hybrid will even shut off and disengaged clutch in a coast or sail mode. The BMW 3 series and I think 5 series will also shut down in a coast mode.

    14. #64
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tdi13golf View Post
      Very highly educated engineers who tested the system in multi-million dollar labs just might know that it's ok.
      While I agree that this shutting off of turbo cars is ok

      Those engineers FK up ALL the time...

    15. #65
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      Quote Originally Posted by Merckx View Post
      Why do so many dislike cars with automatic stop/start?
      '89 VW Jetta GLI | '02 VW GTI 1.8T | '05 Porsche Boxster | '05 Ducati Sport1000 | '06 VW GTI | '07 Porsche Cayman | '08 Ducati 848 | '14 Porsche 911 | '17 VW Golf R

    16. #66
      Here is the thing....This feature isn't for us. It's only to meet some arbitrary government number, a "cheat" if you will, in my mind, just like the TDI thing. Engineers met a number, and passed the wear and tear on components on to the consumer.

      Starters, transmissions, oil coking, coolant temp creep in stop and go conditions (as the coolant isn't circulating in stop and go traffic), bigger batteries, the HVAC equipment getting different levels of voltage and load, wear and tear on the pulleys, bearings, and belts from constant stop/go.

      All for the consumer to get a teeeeeeeny tiny benefit of mileage. But the manufacturer to get huge boosts in emissions testing. Because if the engine isn't running, it isn't emitting.
      DCIVW
      CE.

    17. #67
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      Quote Originally Posted by dubdaze68 View Post


      Starters, transmissions, oil coking, coolant temp creep in stop and go conditions (as the coolant isn't circulating in stop and go traffic), bigger batteries, the HVAC equipment getting different levels of voltage and load, wear and tear on the pulleys, bearings, and belts from constant stop/go.
      no on the coking

      No on the coolant thing, first off they have electric circulating pumps, second coolant still flows without a pump.

      Starters, while they still do fail, are pretty robust these days I can't even recall the last time I changed one.


      All for the consumer to get a teeeeeeeny tiny benefit of mileage. But the manufacturer to get huge boosts in emissions testing. Because if the engine isn't running, it isn't emitting.
      I'm not entirely sure this is at all incorporated into the testing.

    18. #68
      Don't care for it at all. At least in the C300 loaner we had recently you could disable it based on custom settings.

    19. #69
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      no on the coking

      No on the coolant thing, first off they have electric circulating pumps, second coolant still flows without a pump.

      Starters, while they still do fail, are pretty robust these days I can't even recall the last time I changed one.

      I'm not entirely sure this is at all incorporated into the testing.
      But, the circulating pumps still work off of battery voltage. And Yeah, starters are more robust, but they can still be taxed by firing 30 times a commute. It's still a hell of a strain on it. And it just adds heat to an already crowded engine bay.
      DCIVW
      CE.

    20. #70
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      Quote Originally Posted by dubdaze68 View Post
      But, the circulating pumps still work off of battery voltage..
      And? the load that the pump is going to put on the battery while sitting there is minimal and arguable healthy for the battery.

    21. #71
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tdi13golf View Post
      Very highly educated engineers who tested the system in multi-million dollar labs just might know that it's ok.

      The oil temp of a modern car changes very very little from operating normally to idle. Water temp doesn't even change much in a modern car during normal driving. Plus you should be off the accelerations if not fully off the throttle for a several seconds as you properly noticed the intersection or redlight stoppage ahead.

      The VW turbo Jetta hybrid will even shut off and disengaged clutch in a coast or sail mode. The BMW 3 series and I think 5 series will also shut down in a coast mode.
      And what happens when you slap a bigger turbo on, and tune it to the safeish limit? I can run logs on a variet of cars and see a pretty big incrse in temps especially if you just made a nice pull to move over a few lanes to exit on a freeway, and then get stoped at a long light. It's just stupid for how little gas it's saving me.

    22. #72
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      How do these systems operate? Is it only used when you are on the brake? Once you let of it starts again?
      Do these work on manual transmissions?
      The 320d I had as a rental in germany a few years ago had it. IMO it works better on automatic models. Especially on the 320d, the gear level shook a lot when starting which made getting into the right gear a bit tricky sometimes.

    23. #73
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      Quote Originally Posted by jszucs View Post
      And what happens when you slap a bigger turbo on, and tune it to the safeish limit? I can run logs on a variet of cars and see a pretty big incrse in temps especially if you just made a nice pull to move over a few lanes to exit on a freeway, and then get stoped at a long light. It's just stupid for how little gas it's saving me.
      stop.. just stop

    24. #74
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      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      stop.. just stop
      Why? Tdi13golf seems to think that because the oil temp changes very little that it's fine to just stop flowing that oil that keeps the turbo cool and wicks heat out of it, that it's fine. It's not a matter of the oil getting hotter it's a matter of the turbo and shaft inside said turbo being really hot and needing the oil flow though it to keep wicking the heat out.

    25. #75
      A couple who I know sold their $80k vehicle due to it randomly shutting off at stops, which no one could diagnose properly, irritating them to no end. Goes out and buys a pair of $80k vehicles which do it every time now, which they love and brag about every time it happens. I had to remind them that the manufacturers are essentially being forced to do things like this. In order to negate that idiocy, I'm going to go outside and let my unoccupied vehicle idle in my driveway for a couple hours. Then I'm going to dump a few gallons of old coolant out onto the ground behind my garage while I continue to work on burning my 10 cords of hardwood in my uncatalysed wood stove. mlm
      =P

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