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    1. #1

      No APR TCU Tune Available for My Car

      After going with the stage 1 APR high torque file two weeks ago, I think I am experiencing DSG clutch slip so I made the two hour drive back to my tuner to get the TCU tune flashed to my car. About 15 minutes later they come back and tell me there is no TCU tune available for my car. Seems kind of absurd that there is an ECU file for my car but no TCU file available. Any ideas how damaging it is to the car to keep driving it around with the DSG slipping occasionally?

    2. #2
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      After going with the stage 1 APR high torque file two weeks ago, I think I am experiencing DSG clutch slip so I made the two hour drive back to my tuner to get the TCU tune flashed to my car. About 15 minutes later they come back and tell me there is no TCU tune available for my car. Seems kind of absurd that there is an ECU file for my car but no TCU file available.
      It would be helpful if you mentioned what your car actually is. Or even better, add it to your Vortex profile so that it automatically appears in the sidebar of each post you make.

      Any ideas how damaging it is to the car to keep driving it around with the DSG slipping occasionally?
      Clutches that slip end up slipping more. You could back down to the APR low torque file to take some load off the clutch system, and/or try the Unitronics TCU tune (assuming there is one for your car, whatever it is) which people seem to think is better anyway.

      Neil

    3. #3
      Banner Advertiser ExcelerateSales's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      After going with the stage 1 APR high torque file two weeks ago, I think I am experiencing DSG clutch slip so I made the two hour drive back to my tuner to get the TCU tune flashed to my car. About 15 minutes later they come back and tell me there is no TCU tune available for my car. Seems kind of absurd that there is an ECU file for my car but no TCU file available. Any ideas how damaging it is to the car to keep driving it around with the DSG slipping occasionally?
      We get this a lot. Just because there is ECU software doesn't always mean there is DSG. The DSG calibrations are obviously separate from the ECU. The ECU software is also more common to the general public looking for power upgrades so it is almost two times as likely that the ECU has been sent for extraction than the TCU.

      Your dealer should have the extraction cable and should have been able to do this and send the file to APR.

      I would flash the medium or low torque output until your TCU calibration is complete, or just don't give it 100% beans until you can get the software loaded.

      Hope this was some good enough insight for you.

      Greg
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    4. #4
      Member nikhsub1's Avatar
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      check dsg fluid level.

    5. #5
      Quote Originally Posted by NeilCM View Post
      It would be helpful if you mentioned what your car actually is. Or even better, add it to your Vortex profile so that it automatically appears in the sidebar of each post you make.



      Clutches that slip end up slipping more. You could back down to the APR low torque file to take some load off the clutch system, and/or try the Unitronics TCU tune (assuming there is one for your car, whatever it is) which people seem to think is better anyway.

      Neil
      This is the Golf VII R forum... My car is a MK7 R. A 2017 to be exact, but that doesn't really matter.

      No issues with using the Unitronics TCU tune with an APR ECU tune?

    6. #6
      Quote Originally Posted by ExcelerateSales View Post
      We get this a lot. Just because there is ECU software doesn't always mean there is DSG. The DSG calibrations are obviously separate from the ECU. The ECU software is also more common to the general public looking for power upgrades so it is almost two times as likely that the ECU has been sent for extraction than the TCU.

      Your dealer should have the extraction cable and should have been able to do this and send the file to APR.

      I would flash the medium or low torque output until your TCU calibration is complete, or just don't give it 100% beans until you can get the software loaded.

      Hope this was some good enough insight for you.

      Greg
      Thanks Greg, yes the dealer said something about submitting a tune request so presumably they extracted whatever data was needed to do that. The only time it seems to be slipping is under "low" RPM with a lot of throttle input. For example cruising in 6th gear at 4,000 RPM and I go to accelerate you can feel the car lurching and you can see the boost (on the built in boost gauge) fluctuating rapidly. Someone else mentioned low DSG fluid, does that sound like a symptom of that? At high RPMs I don't notice this behavior at all.

    7. #7
      Member typhoonegator's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      This is the Golf VII R forum... My car is a MK7 R. A 2017 to be exact, but that doesn't really matter.

      No issues with using the Unitronics TCU tune with an APR ECU tune?
      Well, the year kinda does matter. As APR (and other tuners) encounter new chipsets and receive requests for tuning files that accommodate their architecture, the likelihood that a tune will be available goes up.

      If you had an older car, it would be less likely that no one with that TCU had been to an APR dealer and requested a tune.
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    8. #8
      Quote Originally Posted by typhoonegator View Post
      Well, the year kinda does matter. As APR (and other tuners) encounter new chipsets and receive requests for tuning files that accommodate their architecture, the likelihood that a tune will be available goes up.

      If you had an older car, it would be less likely that no one with that TCU had been to an APR dealer and requested a tune.
      I was more saying the year doesn't really matter engine/transmission wise and that since this is the Golf VII R forum it stands to reason that my car is a MK7 Golf R. Obviously the newer cars have TCU "boxcodes" that have not been encountered by APR dealers yet. I was mainly surprised that you could have tunes for the engine on a car but not the transmission. Wouldn't it make more sense for APR to require their dealers to upload boxcode info for both the engine and transmission on every car that they tune just so tunes are more readily available?

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      I was more saying the year doesn't really matter engine/transmission wise and that since this is the Golf VII R forum it stands to reason that my car is a MK7 Golf R. Obviously the newer cars have TCU "boxcodes" that have not been encountered by APR dealers yet. I was mainly surprised that you could have tunes for the engine on a car but not the transmission. Wouldn't it make more sense for APR to require their dealers to upload boxcode info for both the engine and transmission on every car that they tune just so tunes are more readily available?
      The model year does matter. For the exact reason the previous poster gave, which you acknowledged.

      Also, as the other poster mentioned, there is more demand for ECU tunes than TCU tunes. First, because people generally don't prioritize it and second, because not everyone has a DSG.

      This all means that your circumstance isn't all that crazy.

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    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      After going with the stage 1 APR high torque file two weeks ago, I think I am experiencing DSG clutch slip so I made the two hour drive back to my tuner to get the TCU tune flashed to my car. About 15 minutes later they come back and tell me there is no TCU tune available for my car. Seems kind of absurd that there is an ECU file for my car but no TCU file available. Any ideas how damaging it is to the car to keep driving it around with the DSG slipping occasionally?
      Not odd at all. There are many software versions for DSGs. It's reasonable to assume not all versions will have a corresponding tune available. I checked with APR before taking my car in to get flashed. They didn't have an ECU nor TCU tune available either. I had to wait a few months. Sorry to hear about your long drive. Best to check these things beforehand.


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    11. #11

      No APR TCU Tune Available for My Car

      News to me; did not know the DSG could slip and also requires a tune. 15 mk7 gti 6mt SE PP

      How much is a tcu tune upgrade?

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    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by v-1 View Post
      News to me; did not know the DSG could slip and also requires a tune. 15 mk7 gti 6mt SE PP

      How much is a tcu tune upgrade?

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      The TCU always only applies just enough clamping pressure to avoid slip under stock conditions. As engine torque output increases, the TCU increases clamping pressure linearly, up to a certain point. When engine torque is significantly higher than stock torque, the TCU doesn't keep increasing pressure to match, which causes the slip.

      APR's TCU tune allows the TCU to keep increasing clamping pressure linearly even when engine torque is much higher than stock.

      The TCU tune is $700 for our car.

      Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

    13. #13
      Quote Originally Posted by gordonf238 View Post
      Not odd at all. There are many software versions for DSGs. It's reasonable to assume not all versions will have a corresponding tune available. I checked with APR before taking my car in to get flashed. They didn't have an ECU nor TCU tune available either. I had to wait a few months. Sorry to hear about your long drive. Best to check these things beforehand.


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      If you were running APR wouldn't you require that your dealers collected information about all the different ECUs and TCUs that they come across in cars that they have plugged the tuning laptop into? For example, a customer comes in only for an ECU tune but you have the dealer also submit the information about the customer's TCU so that a tune can be prepared and ready to use when that same customer comes in at a later time or another customer with that same TCU revision comes in. Makes sense to me? I did attempt to check if my car would be "tunable" beforehand but my tuner said they can't tell until they plug their APR laptop into it.

    14. #14
      Member nikhsub1's Avatar
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      You should not have any clutch slipping at all with a stage 1 tune. Get your DSG fluid level checked (instead of crying about the TCU not available yet) because a symptom of low dsg fluid is slipping clutches.

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      I have a 2017 R and got APR Stage 1 High TQ with the TCU tune no problem from my dealer.

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      Quote Originally Posted by nikhsub1 View Post
      You should not have any clutch slipping at all with a stage 1 tune. Get your DSG fluid level checked (instead of crying about the TCU not available yet) because a symptom of low dsg fluid is slipping clutches.
      I'm with Nik- something else is up if you're getting noticeable slip from Stg 1 APR tune. (Unless maybe you've been abusing the s*** out of launch contol).
      Slipping DSG was a big red flag for cars delivered w/ low trans fluid levels.

    17. #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Golf RRR View Post
      I'm with Nik- something else is up if you're getting noticeable slip from Stg 1 APR tune. (Unless maybe you've been abusing the s*** out of launch contol).
      Slipping DSG was a big red flag for cars delivered w/ low trans fluid levels.
      I spoke to APR about the issue I was having. They requested that I take video of it occurring and once I explained what the car was doing they were pretty adamant that it was the DSG slipping and they pointed out that their website even says stage 1 cars can have slippage issues. The customer service rep said the APR TCU tune should clear the slipping right up. The car has been launched maybe 5 times in its whole life so I wouldn't really consider that abused. I am not too sure how low DSG fluid could be the cause as this behavior doesn't happen all the time. This slippage only happens under high boost, high gears, and RPMs between ~2800 to 4000.

    18. #18
      Quote Originally Posted by nikhsub1 View Post
      You should not have any clutch slipping at all with a stage 1 tune. Get your DSG fluid level checked (instead of crying about the TCU not available yet) because a symptom of low dsg fluid is slipping clutches.
      Straight from APR's mouth:

      "The upgrade is offered in both high and low torque versions, and is available for various fuel grades. The high torque upgrade may require an upgraded clutch, or APR's TCU Upgrade to avoid clutch slip, so low torque software is available, offering an impressive 349-366 FT-LBS of torque."

      I would say having slipping clutches must not be too far out of the ordinary?

    19. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      I am not too sure how low DSG fluid could be the cause as this behavior..
      Folks here seem to be trying to help you, but you steadfastly refuse it all. Just have the fluid level checked to eliminate it as a possibility.
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    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      Straight from APR's mouth:

      "The upgrade is offered in both high and low torque versions, and is available for various fuel grades. The high torque upgrade may require an upgraded clutch, or APR's TCU Upgrade to avoid clutch slip, so low torque software is available, offering an impressive 349-366 FT-LBS of torque."

      I would say having slipping clutches must not be too far out of the ordinary?

      This is complete BS.... you don't need clutches!!! Dude people are giving you great advise.... Check fluid level. Low fluid = slipping clutches. if its good... then you need a GOOD TCU tune. APR suggest clutches because they want to sell you them... DUH! Read around plenty of guys are running HIGH HP cars on stock clutches with the right TCU tune and extra clamping force. Or go spend money not needed... that's fine with me. lol

      And I speak from experience... APRs TCU is average at best. IMHO

    21. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      This is the Golf VII R forum... My car is a MK7 R. A 2017 to be exact, but that doesn't really matter.
      Wrong — if it doesn't matter you wouldn't be asking the question.

      There are significant differences between the model years. In fact you alluded to this yourself when saying you were told "there is no TCU tune available for my car."

      APR's own website says:

      - Availability and TCU Compatibility: Some versions and features may not be available for all TCUs.
      - TCU Revision Notice: Multiple TCU revisions exist for each platform. APR software may be temporarily unavailable when factory updates are applied. An APR dealer can check availability in person, or over the phone if the TCU boxcode/revision is known.


      You are also getting good advice about having the DSG fluid level checked — take it. Another piece of advice: when you're in a hole, stop digging. Especially when people are trying to throw you a rope.

      Neil
      Last edited by NeilCM; 04-11-2017 at 09:35 AM.

    22. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by mkIIISC View Post
      This is complete BS.... you don't need clutches!!! Dude people are giving you great advise.... Check fluid level. Low fluid = slipping clutches. if its good... then you need a GOOD TCU tune. APR suggest clutches because they want to sell you them... DUH! Read around plenty of guys are running HIGH HP cars on stock clutches with the right TCU tune and extra clamping force. Or go spend money not needed... that's fine with me. lol

      And I speak from experience... APRs TCU is average at best. IMHO
      APR isn't recommending clutch packs for the DSG, they are referring to the manual.

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    23. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by biglilsteve View Post
      APR isn't recommending clutch packs for the DSG, they are referring to the manual.

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      Good point, I mis-read the info on APRs reply.
      Last edited by mkIIISC; 04-11-2017 at 12:10 PM.

    24. #24
      First, let me say thanks to everyone for trying to help. I am not trying to dig myself a hole here. I am just being resistant to the idea that the DSG fluid is low because it doesn't add up to me. If it was as simple as pulling a dipstick and taking a look real quick I would obviously do so but we all know checking the DSG fluid is a bit more involved... All the cases where someone had low DSG fluid on a new car that I could dig up here were experiencing issues at stock power levels. Those were also 2016 MY cars and I haven't seen any evidence of low fluid levels in 2017s. Before my ECU was tuned stage 1 there was no slippage and now that it is tuned, it only slips when in "D". If I put it into "S" or shift manually there are no issues either. In my mind, at least, that seems to point to a lack of clamping pressure in the DSG clutch-pack and that is one of the things that a TCU tune claims to remedy. When I quoted from APR's website I wasn't saying that I think I need new clutches, I was pointing out that APR says you MIGHT need a TCU tune to eliminate slippage. Now back to my original question, is driving around in this condition doing any great harm? I know its a wet clutch system and it should be able to deal with a little slipping but how much damage do you guys think this is causing? It would seem the TCU recognizes the slippages as there is certainly a cut in boost when this happens in what I can only guess is a self-preservation effort. You guys that have TCU tunes would recommend Unitronic's TCU tune over APR's? Can I check beforehand if they have a tune for my TCU before I order the tune and cable from ShopDAP? Thanks again for the help.

    25. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      First, let me say thanks to everyone for trying to help. I am not trying to dig myself a hole here. I am just being resistant to the idea that the DSG fluid is low because it doesn't add up to me. If it was as simple as pulling a dipstick and taking a look real quick I would obviously do so but we all know checking the DSG fluid is a bit more involved... All the cases where someone had low DSG fluid on a new car that I could dig up here were experiencing issues at stock power levels. Those were also 2016 MY cars and I haven't seen any evidence of low fluid levels in 2017s. Before my ECU was tuned stage 1 there was no slippage and now that it is tuned, it only slips when in "D". If I put it into "S" or shift manually there are no issues either. In my mind, at least, that seems to point to a lack of clamping pressure in the DSG clutch-pack and that is one of the things that a TCU tune claims to remedy. When I quoted from APR's website I wasn't saying that I think I need new clutches, I was pointing out that APR says you MIGHT need a TCU tune to eliminate slippage. Now back to my original question, is driving around in this condition doing any great harm? I know its a wet clutch system and it should be able to deal with a little slipping but how much damage do you guys think this is causing? It would seem the TCU recognizes the slippages as there is certainly a cut in boost when this happens in what I can only guess is a self-preservation effort. You guys that have TCU tunes would recommend Unitronic's TCU tune over APR's? Can I check beforehand if they have a tune for my TCU before I order the tune and cable from ShopDAP? Thanks again for the help.
      Yeah not sure why ppl are resisting the fact that APR Hi torque could cause slippage, I have read plenty about this occurring and APR tells you themselves as you have pointed out. I would dial back to med torque until they are able to give you TCU tune. I am not sure about mixing ECU and TCU tunes, I have seem ppl say that it should not be an issue but I have yet to see someone who has actually done this.

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