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    1. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      Now back to my original question, is driving around in this condition doing any great harm?
      Slip is the only thing that causes harm. As another poster mentioned, you should avoid giving the car the full beans until you get the TCU addressed. That way you won't provoke any slippage.

      Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

    2. #27
      Banner Advertiser ExcelerateSales's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      If you were running APR wouldn't you require that your dealers collected information about all the different ECUs and TCUs that they come across in cars that they have plugged the tuning laptop into? For example, a customer comes in only for an ECU tune but you have the dealer also submit the information about the customer's TCU so that a tune can be prepared and ready to use when that same customer comes in at a later time or another customer with that same TCU revision comes in. Makes sense to me? I did attempt to check if my car would be "tunable" beforehand but my tuner said they can't tell until they plug their APR laptop into it.
      It makes a lot of sense to me, but its not always that easy. You can't just scan the TCu and send in the revision or box code. The file would need to be extracted from the TCU and sent to APR for calibration, and that takes time/labor to do. We can easily check the TCU box code when connecting to VCDS to check for codes and check the server if there is software available. If not, we can request it from APR and it will be marked requested, but we would need to present the option to the customer. If the customer wants the TCU upgrade we will extract it for APR. We also make sure to tell customers before heading down that there may not be software on the newer cars but won't know until they get here unless they can check their box code and revision.

      Quote Originally Posted by nikhsub1 View Post
      You should not have any clutch slipping at all with a stage 1 tune. Get your DSG fluid level checked (instead of crying about the TCU not available yet) because a symptom of low dsg fluid is slipping clutches.
      We have seen quite a few brave souls try stage 1 high torque with stock DSG, had two cars experience early slipping. I do not recommend high torque stage 1 Golf R's to go without DSG software. But you are not wrong, if the fluid level is not right it can cause funky issues. we have seen some new cars from the factory be low on fluid.


      If a DSG is slipping long enough you very well could need clutch packs. Even if you are stage 1. So its not a true answer. But if you are stage 1 and dsg tuned you should have no need for clutch packs.
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    3. #28
      Member nikhsub1's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ExcelerateSales View Post



      We have seen quite a few brave souls try stage 1 high torque with stock DSG, had two cars experience early slipping. I do not recommend high torque stage 1 Golf R's to go without DSG software. But you are not wrong, if the fluid level is not right it can cause funky issues. we have seen some new cars from the factory be low on fluid.


      If a DSG is slipping long enough you very well could need clutch packs. Even if you are stage 1. So its not a true answer. But if you are stage 1 and dsg tuned you should have no need for clutch packs.
      I don't recall seeing any threads with slipping DSG due to any stage 1 tune, ever. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it must be very rare. OTOH, I have seen several cars slipping at stage 1 due to low DSG fluid. After DSG was filled to proper levels, slipping ceased. But the OP should keep complaining about no TCU tune and ignore a potential issue he can actually do something about right now

    4. #29
      Quote Originally Posted by swedes View Post
      Yeah not sure why ppl are resisting the fact that APR Hi torque could cause slippage, I have read plenty about this occurring and APR tells you themselves as you have pointed out. I would dial back to med torque until they are able to give you TCU tune. I am not sure about mixing ECU and TCU tunes, I have seem ppl say that it should not be an issue but I have yet to see someone who has actually done this.
      THANKS! I don't know why it is so inconceivable to others here that the Hi Torque tune might cause issues with a stock DSG that is expecting to only have to deal with 296 ft-lbs vs 366 ft-lbs especially when APR themselves say to expect that to happen. I'm gonna have to go with Occam's Razor here. Car had no issues prior to tune and now it has DSG slippage. Is it more likely that the DSG fluid level lowered suddenly after the car was tuned or more likely that the tune that added 70 ft-lbs of torque is the source of the problem? If a TCU tune doesn't solve this issue then I will check the fluid level and come apologize to everyone that said to check that first

      I was on the fence about getting the TCU tuned but the more miles I put on this car the more and more I come to loathe the stock shifting behavior. This slippage was just the final straw that pushed me to want to get the TCU tuned. Its not as if I wouldn't get the TCU tune if all I had to do was add some DSG fluid although I do appreciate that you guys are trying to save me money. I can avoid the conditions that cause the slipping pretty easily by just putting it in sport mode or going easy on the throttle at low speeds in high gears. There are no issues with lower gears and higher engine speeds. If APR isn't able to generate a tune for my TCU in the next few days and I decide to go with Unitronic's TCU tune do I go for the stage 1 or stage 2 DSG tune? Can anyone confirm the APR ECU tune gets along with the Unitronics DSG tune?

      ExcelerateSales, thanks for the helpful response regarding why APR doesn't just collect information on all ECU/TCUs their dealers encounter.

    5. #30
      Member nikhsub1's Avatar
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      Well, you can't fix...

    6. #31
      Member nikhsub1's Avatar
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      Here is one long thread where it was 100% low DSG fluid causing the slippage. It gets interesting at page 11, before it's a lot of spit balling and whatnot. If your DSG is low, even a tune will not fix that, I'd get the fluid level checked, but I must be crazy

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ing!-Need-Help

    7. #32
      Quote Originally Posted by nikhsub1 View Post
      Here is one long thread where it was 100% low DSG fluid causing the slippage. It gets interesting at page 11, before it's a lot of spit balling and whatnot. If your DSG is low, even a tune will not fix that, I'd get the fluid level checked, but I must be crazy

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ing!-Need-Help
      I just went through all 15 pages of that thread. Pretty convincing results to be sure. I guess I'll get a DSG service kit on order. I still don't quite understand from a mechanical point of view how low fluid can only cause issues at tuned power levels and not at stock power levels but what do I know.

    8. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      I just went through all 15 pages of that thread. Pretty convincing results to be sure. I guess I'll get a DSG service kit on order. I still don't quite understand from a mechanical point of view how low fluid can only cause issues at tuned power levels and not at stock power levels but what do I know.
      Was hoping you'd go with the TCU tune route once it becomes available before the fluid route.

      Videos posted of members with slippage were pretty extreme and easily replicated when bogging the engine, to that I believe it was for 1/4-1/2 of a quart shy of the required fluid level... When I went with 93 HTq stage 2 and had slight slippage during the summer and when attempting to replicate by bogging the motor, it'd be ever so minor... Nothing compared to what was posted on the other thread... So I decided to just go down to the 93 med tq tune and had no issues whatsoever. Even in -30C temps the dsg held strong...

      I've posted this a few times; APR and other members have yet to confirm / acknowledge that a TCU tune has remedied an existing clutch slipping issue they have experienced without having to address any fluid levels... Most have either had the TCU prior to an ECU upgrade or have done it at the same time. However, I recall reading an UM stage 3 car running on stock clutch packs with their tune pulling over 700whp and probably 650tq? (i don't remember the exact numbers, but then again this could have been the 7speed dsg)

      I won't deny all the praise people give the tune for it's improved drivability in D and S mode, but for me, I drive in M on a regular and only really concerned about the potential clamp pressure increase / limit removal..

      Now if APR would only offer a TCU tune with an 'a la carte option'

      I guess I'll wait for the next sale and test it out

    9. #34
      Quote Originally Posted by drunknfoo View Post
      Was hoping you'd go with the TCU tune route once it becomes available before the fluid route.

      Videos posted of members with slippage were pretty extreme and easily replicated when bogging the engine, to that I believe it was for 1/4-1/2 of a quart shy of the required fluid level... When I went with 93 HTq stage 2 and had slight slippage during the summer and when attempting to replicate by bogging the motor, it'd be ever so minor... Nothing compared to what was posted on the other thread... So I decided to just go down to the 93 med tq tune and had no issues whatsoever. Even in -30C temps the dsg held strong...

      I've posted this a few times; APR and other members have yet to confirm / acknowledge that a TCU tune has remedied an existing clutch slipping issue they have experienced without having to address any fluid levels... Most have either had the TCU prior to an ECU upgrade or have done it at the same time. However, I recall reading an UM stage 3 car running on stock clutch packs with their tune pulling over 700whp and probably 650tq? (i don't remember the exact numbers, but then again this could have been the 7speed dsg)

      I won't deny all the praise people give the tune for it's improved drivability in D and S mode, but for me, I drive in M on a regular and only really concerned about the potential clamp pressure increase / limit removal..

      Now if APR would only offer a TCU tune with an 'a la carte option'

      I guess I'll wait for the next sale and test it out
      Turns out the APR TCU tune was available all along... The APR dealer just wasn't able to see it when they checked for some reason so that was a wasted 180 mile drive.. I'll be going back to them for the TCU tune once I decide whether or not if I just want to install the APR downpipe and intercooler and have it all done in one trip. The slippage I occasionally experience is not extreme at all. It is more like a fluttering feeling that can be seen/heard in the boost pressure. The RPMs don't jump up or anything like that. What did your car do when you had the slight slippage? My slippage is so minor that I still don't feel entirely convinced that low fluid level is the issue... but these guys talked me into spending $80 on the fill adapter and a quart of DSG fluid so I guess I'll give that a shot.

    10. #35
      Now that was able to actually capture some video of this issue in action (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozj6C13QBEI) I am starting to have more doubts that the issue I am having is even DSG slippage to begin with. I've read that some guys were experiencing turbo surge with the APR tunes and now I am beginning to think that is what is going on. What do ya'll think? Of course I already bought the DSG servicing tool and the fluid

    11. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      Now that was able to actually capture some video of this issue in action (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozj6C13QBEI) I am starting to have more doubts that the issue I am having is even DSG slippage to begin with. I've read that some guys were experiencing turbo surge with the APR tunes and now I am beginning to think that is what is going on. What do ya'll think? Of course I already bought the DSG servicing tool and the fluid

      That isn't slippage, that's in APRs tune. BTW, any Clutch slippage your RPMs would climb/ and or shoot up and you wouldn't be accelerating.... Not boost fluctuating like that.
      Last edited by mkIIISC; 04-17-2017 at 09:55 AM.

    12. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      Now that was able to actually capture some video of this issue in action (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozj6C13QBEI) I am starting to have more doubts that the issue I am having is even DSG slippage to begin with. I've read that some guys were experiencing turbo surge with the APR tunes and now I am beginning to think that is what is going on. What do ya'll think? Of course I already bought the DSG servicing tool and the fluid
      Clutch slippage isn't going to show like that on the boost gauge. You'd see it on the tach, and probably hear it, as engine rpm rises without a corresponding increase in road speed. Yeah that does look like some kind of turbo surge. No idea if it's 'normal' with the APR tune or not.

      Neil

    13. #38
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      I'll be watching this thread closely. Getting my '17 tuned in about a month and hope I don't face this problem.

      Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

    14. #39
      Well great! Guess I bought $80 worth of DSG servicing stuff for no reason then. If this is turbo surging then there really isn't going to be anything I can do about it, right? When I emailed APR about it they were pretty adamant that it was the DSG slipping even though I told them about the boost fluctuating like you saw in the video. Now that I have seen some videos of actual DSG slippage I am 99% sure that is not what is happening on my car. In those videos the RPMs usually jump up very fast and in my car the RPMS just barely fluctuate with the sound of the boost fluttering. Anything that can be done to reduce or eliminate this since turbo surge isn't the best thing that you can do to your turbo?

    15. #40
      Member nikhsub1's Avatar
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      So, you thought you were having DSG clutch slipping only by judging from the performance monitor?

    16. #41
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      Well great! Guess I bought $80 worth of DSG servicing stuff for no reason then. If this is turbo surging then there really isn't going to be anything I can do about it, right? When I emailed APR about it they were pretty adamant that it was the DSG slipping even though I told them about the boost fluctuating like you saw in the video. Now that I have seen some videos of actual DSG slippage I am 99% sure that is not what is happening on my car. In those videos the RPMs usually jump up very fast and in my car the RPMS just barely fluctuate with the sound of the boost fluttering. Anything that can be done to reduce or eliminate this since turbo surge isn't the best thing that you can do to your turbo?
      Honestly, I don't understand how the Dealer/shop who flashed your car didn't explain to you what is happening? lol
      I cant hear for certain if the compressor is surging or if its just the boost control fluctuating boost. If its fluctuating boost a bit (that's what it looks like) I wouldn't sweat it much... that's just how APR's tune i on boost control. This also could settle in over time/miles but you are also reading off a digital performance monitor gauge so its never going to read super solid... Go view some over videos online.

      If its compressor surge, (you should be able to hear the surging) then my best advise is to learn drive AROUND it. You cant go heavy throttle in a low gear till you are above 3500ish... I drove on my APR tune no problems for 30k and sure I could get it to surge easy, but you have to know how to drive the car differently after.
      Last edited by mkIIISC; 04-17-2017 at 11:49 AM.

    17. #42
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      Quote Originally Posted by nikhsub1 View Post
      So, you thought you were having DSG clutch slipping only by judging from the performance monitor?

      Stop it!

    18. #43
      Quote Originally Posted by nikhsub1 View Post
      So, you thought you were having DSG clutch slipping only by judging from the performance monitor?
      Obviously not... Recording the boost gauge on the performance monitor was the only way for me to show you guys what the car was doing since you can't hear or feel it through video. I did not think it was the DSG slipping, APR told me they think it is slipping after I told them what it was doing and after I sent that video to them they are even more confident that is what is happening. I even explained here what the car was doing and some of you guys were still saying it was likely slipping from being underfilled. Well after everything was said and done it seems the DSG had more than a cup too much in it from the factory and certainly wasn't underfilled by any measure. My tuner is over two hours away so they haven't had much to do with troubleshooting this. Sure it might just be the way the tune regulates the boost but the car bucks pretty noticeably when it is doing so, so much so that my passengers can feel it too. Sure, I could drive around it but I can't see how that should be necessary?


    19. #44
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      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      Obviously not... Recording the boost gauge on the performance monitor was the only way for me to show you guys what the car was doing since you can't hear or feel it through video. I did not think it was the DSG slipping, APR told me they think it is slipping after I told them what it was doing and after I sent that video to them they are even more confident that is what is happening. I even explained here what the car was doing and some of you guys were still saying it was likely slipping from being underfilled. Well after everything was said and done it seems the DSG had more than a cup too much in it from the factory and certainly wasn't underfilled by any measure. My tuner is over two hours away so they haven't had much to do with troubleshooting this. Sure it might just be the way the tune regulates the boost but the car bucks pretty noticeably when it is doing so, so much so that my passengers can feel it too. Sure, I could drive around it but I can't see how that should be necessary?

      Agree you shouldn't have to drive around it. These tunes cost too much to have to deal with that.

      Just get the TCU tune. If it doesn't solve your issue, you'll know immediately and can just get a refund.

      Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

    20. #45
      Maybe check your diverter valve.

    21. #46
      Anything in particular to check regarding the DV? I've kind of suspected it from the beginning.

    22. #47
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      Quote Originally Posted by biglilsteve View Post
      I'll be watching this thread closely. Getting my '17 tuned in about a month and hope I don't face this problem.

      Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
      Just get UM, that tune doesn't have this problem. It's as smooth as can be 👌

      We can meet up one weekend and you can drive my car if you want

    23. #48
      Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dave View Post
      Anything in particular to check regarding the DV? I've kind of suspected it from the beginning.
      I would first take it apart and give it a visual inspection for broken seals or any debris that might have gotten their way through.

    24. #49
      Quote Originally Posted by vw671 View Post
      I would first take it apart and give it a visual inspection for broken seals or any debris that might have gotten their way through.
      Thanks, I'll look into this. I would think the issue would manifest at all times and not just part throttle, high load but perhaps not? APR requested that I take a video of the tachometer while the boost is fluctuating so I did but I can't really see the tach needle moving in any sort of strange fashion. During the duration of this whole video the car is slightly bucking and you can hear the boost going psh psh psh psh (not picked up by crappy camera phone though). I really want to go stage 2 and I have an APR downpipe and intercooler in my cart at NGP but I want to make sure this isn't something to be concerned about before doing so.

      https://youtu.be/vlp10Kb-mVY

    25. #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Evilevo View Post
      Just get UM, that tune doesn't have this problem. It's as smooth as can be 👌

      We can meet up one weekend and you can drive my car if you want
      I would probably change to the UM tune if only they would give us west-coasters some love and come out with a stage 2 91 octane tune.

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