I kind of see the other side now about theory on public schools.... - Page 3
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    1. #51
      Member vwtool's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      My experience was contrary. My poor grades almost always came in classes in which I was too bored to pay attention...
      Exactly. That point for us was the 3rd grade. Multiple meetings with her teacher and with admin, too, but there's only so much give in the system. While it's true that the parents are the key factor in a kid's education, they can't do it alone. It seems as though there has to be some critical mass of parents in the community who themselves have decent educations, and demand the same for their children. We were "engaged" to the point of being "annoying," but you can't create the environment on your own.


      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      You probably also had a decent home life, which is, once again, the HUGE differentiating factor.
      While it's true that parents are the key factor, this gets used as an excuse to not dig any deeper to discover what the other issues might be.



      Quote Originally Posted by WhineMCABasket2.0t View Post
      It for sure is all about the parents, it's not about how much mum and pop shelled out to the schools...
      How much flexibility do your public schools allow the parents in creating the curriculum and the learning environment? Do you get to set teacher-student ratios? If not, then no. It's not just about the parents.

      And this sounds like rationalization. Not all the expensive grapes are sour.

      ...Just because you paid doesn't mean ****all if your kid is a wanker or parents are checked out and think paying for school absolves them of parental duties.
      Thank god for the ne'er-do-well children of the affluent for writing the full-price tuition checks.

    2. #52
      Whine Connoisseur WhineMCABasket2.0t's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by spockcat View Post
      Or you could be engaged AND send him to a good school. This is the path we took and my son just got his PhD in that city at 28 in a bioscience field.
      He'll be at a good school. Guess he's getting a PhD then.

      Cool story... I know tons of PhD Stanford faculty. The number who went to crap public schools is much more than you'd think.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    3. #53
      Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by WhineMCABasket2.0t View Post
      He'll be at a good school. Guess he's getting a PhD then.

      Cool story... I know tons of PhD Stanford faculty. The number who went to crap public schools is much more than you'd think.
      Finished the PhD in the winter and working as a post doc right now until he can get a company off the ground there or takes a job. He actually went to a state school for his undergrad degree where he was top of his class.

      I think the very early years of education are really the most important. Those are the ones that set your study skills. I went to a private school from 7-12 grades. I was a very lazy student. Never read. Never studied. Very much the opposite of my son who started at a good private school in pre-K and went all the way through 12 grade.

    4. #54
      Member DonL's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      Sure it is. Tons of parents have to deal with the problem. About 5% of all K-12 students have some kind of learning disability issue. Nationwide, about 13% are getting some kind of special ed. Those programs tend to cost 3x what a regular student costs the system. A super-affluent town typically has closer to 5% in special ed because they don't have much English as Second Language and remedial instruction. In a poor city, easily half the students need something and there's little money for it. If you can't afford housing in that affluent suburb where all the high income professional people live, it's a real scramble to get those kinds of services.
      Those services are quite important for some kids/families. Our daughter is autistic, so we've had to navigate the whole IEP maze. We're fortunate that our school system is quite highly regarded in the state/county, and tends to score quite well in state tests. The staff has generally been quite accommodating and helpful with our daughter, and we work quite hard with her in the evenings as well, knowing it's a team effort for her to find her own level of success.

      We also know other parents of special needs kids that have had to fight the school system every inch of the way for basic services that their child is affording the opportunity for some levels of success. Even private/charter schools can't or won't help some. One of the reasons I've read is that special needs students dilute the test scores and providing the serviced the special needs student requires eats into the profit margin that charging $X per student allows. I don't know how true that is, however given the drive for profit in today's business environment, I wouldn't be surprised.


      Quote Originally Posted by VDubby18 View Post
      Elementary teacher here going into my third year next year.

      ... one who still throws tantrums in third grade,
      Tantrum or actual meltdown? There's a difference.

      I have a great deal of respect for teachers that deal with special needs kids. Our kid is one of those kids, and I know the patience that her teachers and parapros exhibit every day is often above and beyond the call of duty.

      Overall, I agree with some comments made, that success for the kids often come down to parental involvement and how well supported a school system and the community is, financially and otherwise.
      Quote Originally Posted by jamie@vwvortex
      I'm not grouping everyone together - I would have said everyone in this forum is a moron.

    5. #55
      Member DonL's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by spockcat View Post
      But Hollywood told me last year that it was a bunch of African-American women who got us into space.
      We got them from the Germans. It was hush-hush, top secret until the movie came out.
      Quote Originally Posted by jamie@vwvortex
      I'm not grouping everyone together - I would have said everyone in this forum is a moron.

    6. #56
      So far it sounds like the drunken idea I had of withholding child tax credits to hold parents accountable is a good idea.

      I kid, but even people who disagree a lot in OT on this are saying the same conclusion.........parental involvement and the community the school is in.

    7. #57
      Member bave's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
      So far it sounds like the drunken idea I had of withholding child tax credits to hold parents accountable is a good idea.

      I kid, but even people who disagree a lot in OT on this are saying the same conclusion.........parental involvement and the community the school is in.
      Sure and that fails to address the fact that it is still an overpriced system delivering very poor value. A huge portion of the overall success or failure of the kid has very little to do with the teacher or the building. Has a lot more to do with home life, genetics, and community involvement etc. Every time I had to do with the teachers union it was always "more money = better teachers = better education/results" and I never agreed with that.

    8. #58
      But that's because of accountability.

      Where I work pays premium for engineers. But they expect premium people and results also.

      With sports cars, pick two: fast, cheap, reliable
      With projects, pick two: cheap, fast, high quality

    9. #59
      Member bave's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
      But that's because of accountability.

      Where I work pays premium for engineers. But they expect premium people and results also.

      With sports cars, pick two: fast, cheap, reliable
      With projects, pick two: cheap, fast, high quality
      Well, it's because of a lot of things. Namely the fact that the school board can hold you hostage for compensation. Around here the tactic was always wait until a week or two before school starts and threaten or strike. Hits the local network and people start flipping out demanding you cave in regardless of the cost or reality. Like I said before, the only professions I know of that retire in the early 50's are cops, teachers, and a few military. No one else is going to get a retirement package at 55 like they do. It is the disconnect that taxpayers are footing the bill for benefit and compensation packages that don't exist in the private sector and it gets worse every year.

    10. #60
      Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by bave View Post
      Well, it's because of a lot of things. Namely the fact that the school board can hold you hostage for compensation. Around here the tactic was always wait until a week or two before school starts and threaten or strike. Hits the local network and people start flipping out demanding you cave in regardless of the cost or reality. Like I said before, the only professions I know of that retire in the early 50's are cops, teachers, and a few military. No one else is going to get a retirement package at 55 like they do. It is the disconnect that taxpayers are footing the bill for benefit and compensation packages that don't exist in the private sector and it gets worse every year.
      I was with you until the "and it gets worse every year". My town, like most places in Massachusetts, grandfathered that 2% per year vesting deal years ago. New teachers don't get that deal. They don't see pension money until age 62 and it's now a mix of defined benefit pension and tax deferred employee contribution. It's still way better than anybody in the private sector sees but the retire at 55 with the big pension spike thing cashing in accrued sick time went away years ago. Massachusetts has had Proposition 2 1/2 for 40 years. Towns can't raise tax rates to pay for massive pension costs without a town vote on an override. When it's the voters deciding on a tax hike or not rather than a part time unpaid elected school committee, you get a different outcome. The police are better at playing the game but there are a heck of a lot less of them.

    11. #61
      Member bave's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      I was with you until the "and it gets worse every year". My town, like most places in Massachusetts, grandfathered that 2% per year vesting deal years ago. New teachers don't get that deal. They don't see pension money until age 62 and it's now a mix of defined benefit pension and tax deferred employee contribution. It's still way better than anybody in the private sector sees but the retire at 55 with the big pension spike thing cashing in accrued sick time went away years ago. Massachusetts has had Proposition 2 1/2 for 40 years. Towns can't raise tax rates to pay for massive pension costs without a town vote on an override. When it's the voters deciding on a tax hike or not rather than a part time unpaid elected school committee, you get a different outcome. The police are better at playing the game but there are a heck of a lot less of them.
      I bet it still gets worse when you consider the fact that all those past, present, and future promises aren't paid for and the debt will have to be reconciled one way or another at some point. That's the real issue, the actuarial side of it. You have crooked pension boards assuming 7-8% annualized returns that simply can't happen, meanwhile they are borrowing money to try and fill the hole, but that money is also going to get more expensive, all the time more and more people are going to be drawing on the system

    12. #62
      The public education system is broken. We've homeschooled and participated in hybrid systems for six years now and the experience has been outstanding. I don't mind my taxes going to a broken system because I hope it gets better for future generations but I wouldn't mind some access to vouchers or rebates for educational tools and/or programs.

      Blessings,
      JIMP
      What no person has a right to is to delude others into the belief that faith is something of no great significance, or that it is an easy matter, whereas it is the greatest and most difficult of all things - Kierkegaard

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