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USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection

188K views 292 replies 96 participants last post by  jettagli_guy 
#1 ·

USRT is proud to organize Vortex’s second water/alcohol injection (WAI) group buy from Snow Performance. These Stage 2 "Boost Cooler" kits are designed for high-strung engines that require detonation control beyond what the engine management system is capable of. This may include big turbo 1.8Ts, 2.0l engines with SC kits, R32's running 100 octane files, etc.
Best of all, instead of $8/gallon+ for race gas, WAI operating costs amount to just pennies. Thus, high-output may be had all week instead of only at the track. Other great benefits are the great intercooling effect, removal of carbon deposits from the combustion chamber, and a general improvement in reliability under race conditions.

WAI is appropriate for use in any forced induction engines, very high-compression normally aspirated engines, and those running large amounts of nitrous oxide. Our kits are equipped with progressive controllers which vary spray delivery to match engine load. This is a great differentiator versus lesser engine-bogging set ups which spray at full-blast even at light engine loads. We provide two nozzles of your choice. (Download this small program to determine exactly how much spray you'll need to get the job done. Assume an 80% injector duty cycle if you have any question in that regard.)
It is important to realize that (like race gas) water/alcohol injection will not make power by itself. What it will do is permit substantial increases in boost pressure, bigger shots of nitrous, more compression, advanced ignition timing, or all of the above combined. Some trial and error tuning is required after installation, to achieve maximum power gains. Improvements can be quite dramatic as our German distributor demonstrated on a customer’s Audi S3:
HORSEPOWER before/after

Audi S3 original power: 153kw = 205whp
with Boost Cooler: 200kw = 268whp
HORSEPOWER/TORQUE (final tune)

Audi S3 original torque (not shown): 270Nm = 199ft/lbs
with Boost Cooler: 456Nm = 336ft/lbs
Until the next 15 units are sold or two weeks has elapsed from Feb.1, 2007, the price will be $359 shipped.
The Rules:
a) Shipping will begin as each increment of 5 kits is sold.
c) Buyers screen names will be posted in this thread.
d) All buyers must be members of VW Vortex.
e) No Member may buy more than 2 kits each.
f) PayPal goes to: sales@usrallyteam.com
To order, DO NOT FORGET to send the following information in your PayPal. (Credit card payment by phone is also acceptable: 856.456.3335):
Buyer name
Street address
(NO PO BOXes)
Daytime and nighttime telephone number
Buyer’s email address
VW Vortex member screen name
Vehicle make, model, and year
Indication of MAF or MAP-referencing controller


Notes: Shipping is included in the price for USA buyers only. International freight charges will be added.

We're 100% finished!
Buyers:
FerVR6 (01/24/2007)
speeding-g60 (1/30/2007)
tw1nny03 (2/1/2007)
T-Boy (2/5/2007)
Dragonfli_x (2/5/2007)
theAntiRiced (2/8/2007)
ghostman (2/8/2007)
lanocharacing (2/9/2007)
kindbudz91G60 (2/15/2007)
sergio(2/15/2007)
VR6rocks (2/15/2007)
V-DUB Alec (2/15/2007)
turbo_pumpkin (2/15/2007)
autocrosser11 (2/15/2007)


Modified by Scott@USRT at 3:13 PM 4-30-2007
 
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#28 ·
Re: (Scott@USRT)

How much are your kits going for now, I am looking to cool my car down now that I'm running a stg 2 BBM S/C, I must say though the power gains on the S3 are AMAZING if they were made just using the boost cooler 63 hp is a lot of extra power, Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 
#29 ·
Re: (JonVWluver)

Jon, the current pricing is available on the USRT website. Non-IC'd FI engines benefit tremendously from water/alcohol injection for two reasons.
a) Intake air temperatures are dropped massively and instantly which allows more fuel to be burned to produce more power/torque.
b) The tendency to detonate is reduced significantly which permits extra timing advance and MORE BOOST.
That customer's S3 was not modified between runs aside from spraying the WAI and cranking up the boost. Another example is a local customer's Corrado G60T which was detonating at 12psi boost. Now he's able to turn it up to 17psi before he starts to ping at all. Fwiw, he has yet to truly tune the system. So, even greater gains are likely in the near future.
I'll bet that WAI becomes a trend in VW engine tuning next year. We're lagging far behind a lot of the other marques in this regard! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 
#30 ·
Re: (Scott@USRT)

OMG, when I didn't think my world would get any worse, I finally see the group buy that at one point I wanted to start... now it's gone
. ... sniff sniff ... But http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for bringing it out!

BTW, really dig the new website!
 
#31 ·
Re: (Scott@USRT)

Hi Scott right now i am in the process of building my car (seat Leon 1.8T) with a kit form Pagparts with a Gt2871r, 440cc, 3 inch maf, etc.
I have seen the benefits of wtare inj in a Jetta with a T3-t4 with no injection he could only bust 17 psi, with w-i he can boost it up to 22psi!!!!!
I just have two questions, one it wouldnt be dangerous to the rods the massive torque that you aquire with the w-i kit, and the second question do you ship out to MĂ©xico, if you do can you PM with the shippement cost and ill buy one of these on Monday.......
Thanks
Alex
 
#32 ·
Re: (alexo)

Scott, do you have the dimensions of both the pump and the tank?
 
#33 ·
Re: (ruso)

Here's some test data wringing out 3rd/4th gear uphill with my apr STG III gti.
WI made a huge difference in this cars performance. 16 C (28.8F) difference in peak air intake temps. Zero timing pull at 22 psi
93 octane with 93 in tank. I never tried 100 oct on 93 but a couple stg III guys have mentioned that it works with WI.




Modified by enginerd at 11:04 AM 12-2-2005
 
#34 ·
Re: (alexo)

Quote, originally posted by alexo »
I just have two questions, one it wouldnt be dangerous to the rods the massive torque that you aquire with the w-i kit.

Alex, thanks for your support. Please let us know when you've got some nice results from your kit. Your connecting rods' long-term health depends on how hard you push. I can't tell you a specific power level where you'll start breaking parts. However, water/alky injection will help eliminate the sudden pressure spikes which bring sudden death to engine internals.
 
#35 ·
Re: (enginerd)

Quote, originally posted by enginerd »
I never tried 100 oct on 93 but a couple stg III guys have mentioned that it works with WI.

 
#36 ·
Re: (ruso)

Sure, the water pump is 8" long, approximate 4" tall (including rubber mount pieces), and 4" wide at the mounting bracket. The tank measures 6.5" x 4" x 5". That kind of volume lasts about a week in my friends 500whp Mustang. He's got no space under his hood, so he stuck both his pump and tank in the trunk. They're stashed behind his interior trim panels with Dynamat applied to muffle sound. It's a really slick set up.
The kit in my Scirocco is installed on the floor behind the passenger's seat. However, most folks just keep everything under the hood.
 
#37 ·
Re: (Scott@USRT)

Quote, originally posted by Scott@USRT »
Sure, the water pump is 8" long, approximate 4" tall (including rubber mount pieces), and 4" wide at the mounting bracket. The tank measures 6.5" x 4" x 5". That kind of volume lasts about a week in my friends 500whp Mustang. He's got no space under his hood, so he stuck both his pump and tank in the trunk. They're stashed behind his interior trim panels with Dynamat applied to muffle sound. It's a really slick set up.
The kit in my Scirocco is installed on the floor behind the passenger's seat. However, most folks just keep everything under the hood.

Ok, so does the pump carry similar noise characteristics as an in-line fuel pump?
 
#38 ·
Re: (ruso)

Quote, originally posted by ruso »
Ok, so does the pump carry similar noise characteristics as an in-line fuel pump?

Mmm... nah, it isn't as high-pitched and whiny as that. Rather, it's more of a strong hum. When mounted on the rubber standoffs it's not annoying at all. The reason why my Mustang buddy used the Dynamat is because he put the pump inside the car. Fwiw, I used no sound deadening at all and it doesn't annoy me. Then again, I can't hear a damned thing over the ITBs or my electric power steering pump (mounted on the floor beside the Snow pump).
 
#39 ·
Re: (ruso)

Quote, originally posted by ruso »

Ok, so does the pump carry similar noise characteristics as an in-line fuel pump?

I have another company's system that uses the same pump , made a bracket and mounted it to the OEM SMIC brackets , very stealth and you dont hear anything out there . Just a few install tips . If you mount the pump with the motor side facing up, make sure you silicone around ANY and ALL opening ( where the wires go in, around outerside of the base plate and espec the weep hole ) other wise road water will find its way in the motor and short it out ( ask me how i know
) Another thing i found that helps improve the performance is i removed and blocked off / bye passed the pressure switch in the pump , you get ALOT better spray . I havnt had a chance to use it on my stage 3+ with 100 octane program ,with 93 in the tank . But i used it with good results when it was a APR ko3 100 oct program and 93 in the tank , very little timing pull and great performance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif IMO water / meth systems work well
Bob.G
 
#40 ·
Re: (nathankaufman)

Propane injection is best used to make extra power on a diesel engine -not gasoline. The addition of propane (usually pre-turbo) to any diesel engine, whether turbocharged or normally-aspirated, introduces more fuel to engine, without additional airflow. This is a big deal for a diesel and this mod can produce nice benefits if done correctly. The problem is that there simply aren't very good propane injection kits on the market. What I've seen are all fairly crude.
Now, water/alcohol injection (WAI) is a different beast entirely. Rather than primarily serving as supplementary fueling, the issue here is detonation control. With this method, octane is increased radically. So, boost or nitrous can be cranked up without detonation. WAI can be used very effectively on both gasoline and diesel engines. And, WAI can be used with propane injection on a diesel for really impressive power/torque improvements.
 
#43 ·
Re: (TSTARKZ123)

Quote, originally posted by TSTARKZ123 »
I can use my current winshield washer container right? I have a TT with headlight washers disabled; so i have an extra hose coming out of the resevoir.

Yes, you may use that resevoir instead of the one that we supply.
Quote, originally posted by TSTARKZ123 »
also do you guys install these systems?

Yes, sir. We can handle that for you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 
#45 ·
Re: (TSTARKZ123)

Our new shop is located in South Jersey -near Philadelphia, PA. That place is still under construction, though, so we may need to do the work at another facility close by. If you're interested in getting some work done, please shoot me an IM or email. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 
#47 ·
Re: (Scott@USRT)

Scott,
Can you give us an update on this GB? Is it still on, etc.?
Thanks!
 
#49 ·
is this an appropriate setup for a daily driver? does it require tweaking/calibration etc. I think it looks like a good kit for a serious setup, but i'm not sure it fits what i'm shootin for.
Example: jump in car, turn key, and we're off. let sit for anywhere between 3 hours and 10 days and repeat.
Also, would a snobby rich chick complain about the noise of the pump on a late-nite cruise through some quite back roads?



Modified by ThaCorradoKid at 3:19 PM 2-13-2006
 
#51 ·
Re: (ThaCorradoKid)

Quote, originally posted by ThaCorradoKid »
is this an appropriate setup for a daily driver? does it require tweaking/calibration etc. I think it looks like a good kit for a serious setup, but i'm not sure it fits what i'm shootin for.

Well... if your daily driver needs the detonation control that would otherwise require race gas, then yes it is entirely appropriate. For *maximum* output (which means constantly riding the edge of mechanical destruction) you certainly will need to tweak and adjust. WAI is no different then any other tuning technology in this respect.
However, you don't need to push nearly that hard to make effective use of these systems. Set it for the amount of boost that you plan to run, fuel octane, etc., and then leave it alone for the most part. Now, if the ambient air temperature drops by 50deg or if you're stuck with 87 octane fuel, then that obviously changes the engine's propensity to detonate. So, you'd change the WAI trigger settings accordingly.
Quote »
Also, would a snobby rich chick complain about the noise of the pump on a late-nite cruise through some quite back roads?

Snobby rich chicks complain about *everything* that isn't perfect like Daddy. So, get buff, earn that PhD, buy a huge house by the beach, trade the Dub for a Porsche, and *then* worry about the pump's noise.

 
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