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How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks

434K views 332 replies 104 participants last post by  wcumming 
#1 · (Edited)
As many of you know, I don’t own an Eos. This makes it difficult to provide practical advice based on my own experience with the car, as I do in the Phaeton forum. The staff at my VW dealership (Volkswagen Richmond Hill) follow activities in the forum, and when a customer called to say that his Eos had a water leak, the service manager at my dealer invited me to come up and watch the problem-solving process.


The Eos with the water leak was the first Eos my dealer sold. It was delivered to the customer only a few days after the Eos went on sale here in North America. It has a fairly low VIN (in the 7,000’s), which suggests that it was probably built sometime in the summer of 2006. This is noteworthy, not because there is anything unique about a low VIN, but because the car is now 8 or 9 months old. This is certainly more than enough time for the seals on the car to dry out.
The owner of the Eos dropped it off at the dealership, and the first thing the technicians did was to have a look at the windows and roof to make sure that they were all operating smoothly and properly, and that all the measurements (especially the reference lines at the top of the window glass) were within specifications. No problems were found. The next step in the troubleshooting process was to carry out a ‘baseline water test’ to determine the extent of the leakage. The dealer principal sat in the driver seat, the windows were closed, and the car was flooded with large volumes of low-pressure water from a rather large hose in the wash bay. After about 30 seconds, he started honking the horn, and when the water was turned off, a very wet dealer principal emerged from the car. No doubt about it, the car leaked.
The leak manifested itself at the front left corner of the windshield, where the roof touches the top of the windshield. None of us knew where the water was getting in, but it was clear that the water was ‘getting out’- in other words, dripping into the cabin - at one specific location.
We all put our heads together to try and determine what the facts were. They were as follows:
1) The car was almost 9 months old, even though it was only delivered to the customer 5 months ago.
2) No-one had ever lubricated the rubber seals on the car.
3) The windows and roof all appeared to work properly, except for some deformation (pinching) of the seals on either side of the sunroof. This deformation appeared to be caused by the sunroof panel binding on the roof seal, and pulling part of the seal downwards.
4) All the technicians had been to Eos training.
5) All of us had read all the technical bulletins (TB’s) issued for the Eos.
6) None of us had ever read the owner manual.
7) No-one wanted to start any kind of dis-assembly. We wanted to try the ‘least invasive’ solutions first.
So, after we had all read the '3.2' section of the Owner Manual (this is the "Tips and Advice" section, and there is some really good information in there), and after some discussion, it was decided that since the owner manual suggests on page 25 of section 3.2 that the roof seals be lubricated with VW lubricant part number G 052 172 A1, maybe it would be a good idea to start by doing exactly that.
We ordered three bottles of lubricant. None of us knew how much would be needed, but we knew that the bottles were pretty small. Because the dealer principal was still wet from the baseline water test, he had no disagreement at all with the technician’s decision to order three bottles of lubricant. Because the lubricant would not arrive until the next day, we asked the PDI person to do a thorough detail of the car, to ensure that there was no dirt or other external influences on the car.
The next day, the lubricant arrived. We all took turns applying it – the technicians, myself, the PDI person, and some of the sales staff. We made some interesting discoveries:
1) An Eos has two different types of seals on it. Roof seals and the seals that windows touch are made of a different material than door seals or trunk lid seals.
2) These ‘different’ seals have sort of a rough texture, kind of like a cat’s tongue.
3) If the seals are dry (not lubricated), they will be quite hard, not pliable, and will not tightly conform to the window edge when the window is rolled up.
4) If the seals are dry, they have a dull finish, and sort of a ‘white’ luster to them.
5) It is easiest to lubricate the seals on either side of the sunroof if the sunroof is open.
6) It is easiest to lubricate the seal that goes across the middle rear of the roof if the roof is stopped partway through the retraction process, before the front part of the roof begins to lift off the windshield.
7) It is easiest to lubricate the windshield seal if the roof is fully retracted.
8) To lubricate seals at the top of the windows, put the lubricant on your finger, then rub it in.
9) If a seal looks deformed, rub lots of lubricant on it, and keep rubbing the seal until it ‘rehydrates’.
10) If you leave the roof open for an hour after doing the lubrication, the seals seem to suck up any excess lubricant that might be sitting on them.
After we finished lubricating all the seals, we conducted another water test. The results were “almost perfect”. There were no leaks from the roof, but there was a small leak – just a few drops – from the area beside the exterior rear view mirror on the driver side. Investigation revealed that we had lubricated the window seals there with the door closed, hence, we did not fully lubricate the seal – we missed the part that hides behind the exterior rear view mirror. After applying lubricant to this area, we carried out the water test again, and the result was perfection – after 15 minutes of hosing the car, not a single drop of water was found inside.
The PDI person dried off the car, and we noticed that there were greasy spots on the paint where we had unintentionally deposited excess lubricant. The excess lubricant can be easily removed from the painted surfaces with a paper towel and some windshield washer fluid – no fancy solvents are needed. Because the paint is not porous, the lubricant can’t sink into it.
Below are a whole bunch of photos that I took – hopefully this will explain the procedure better. Many thanks to all the service department staff at my VW dealer for their help making this post.
Michael
Eos Owner Manual - Page 25 of Section 3.2 (NAR English Version)

What it looked like before work began

When seals are not properly lubricated, they bind and get pinched, and as a result, do not keep water out.


Visual characteristics of a seal that needs lubrication

This is the stuff to use, simply because this is what the owner manual says we should use.

The alignment rack is a handy place to use to do the work.

Apply the lubricant sparingly, right out of the bottle (clip the top of the spout).





With the roof in this position, you can get the "butt ends" of the window seals, as well as the rear seal that runs horizontally across the roof.
Don't let the roof lift up from the windshield - otherwise, it will come back down on you!

Don't forget this seal.

...but, DO NOT LUBRICATE the fuzzy seal that touches the trunk lid.
This seal is obviously different from the others - it is fuzzy, not rubber.




 
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19
#28 ·
Re: How to solve (kghia)

Quote, originally posted by kghia »

I guess I have got to figure out the best place to buy liquid Krytox in a jug, and some of those bottles with tiny-tipped applicators. that WolfsburgerMitFries mentioned.

Actually I've found a much better source for precision liquid dispensing equipment. Its called Jensen Global.
http://jensenglobal.com/
If you go with luer needles, get the largest available (14 gauge).
http://jensenglobal.com/cgi-bi....html

or maybe the next sizes smaller (15 or 16 gauge). A 1 inch length is adequate, 1.5 inch is good too. The longer the needle, the more resistance to flow so stay away from the 3 inch for general purpose use. 100 series Krytox oil such as GPL-105 is too thick to easily flow through anything smaller than 16 gauge.
There's also tapered Luer tips, Which I prefer so you don't scratch the paint if you accidentally drop the bottle.
http://jensenglobal.com/cgi-bi....html

They attach to luer lock caps such as this. Or syringes, if you find that easier.





Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 2:42 PM 3-10-2007
 
#29 ·
Re: How to solve (kghia)

Quote, originally posted by kghia »
I guess I have got to figure out the best place to buy liquid Krytox in a jug, and some of those bottles with tiny-tipped applicators that WolfsburgerMitFries mentioned...

William:
You are going to have to take out a second mortgage on your house if you are planning to buy the special lubricant (Krytox) in a "jug". DuPont Corporation has the patent on Krytox sealed up nice and tight, and just like the big pharmaceutical companies, they are charging a pretty penny for the stuff.
So far as dispensing it is concerned - if you buy the stuff that VW recommends (the part number given in the owner manual, which is G 052 172 A1, it comes in a very cleverly designed little bottle. You just cut the tip off the end of the nozzle at the first mark, and voila, you now have the perfect size hole for dispensing a thin, controlled stream of the liquid. When you are finished, you put the attached cap back over the top, and that seals it up.
Because one bottle is more than enough to do two complete Eos vehicles, my guess is that there is really no need to buy the stuff in bulk. I cannot imagine anyone needing more than one bottle per year, maximum.
Michael
Cut the top of the nozzle with a sharp knife here

You then get a perfect-size line of the fluid when you tip the bottle

And the bottle comes with an attached cap



Modified by PanEuropean at 10:28 PM 7-8-2007
 
#30 ·
Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)

Incredibly valuable write up. I'm going to forward it to my Eos dealer before my first service (car delivered 12/8/06) next week. I have already confirmed the have the lubricant in stock, but I want to make sure they understand how to apply it correctly (or I will).
 
#31 ·
Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)

Thanks for the kind comment, Scott. I think everyone at my VW dealership had quite a bit of fun solving this problem (especially the initial water test, which soaked the dealer principal), and I am very grateful to my dealer for inviting me up to watch and document the whole process.
A few of the pictures that I took last Thursday did not turn out well, so I could not include them in the original post. I went back to the dealer today, but the customer had picked up his Eos and was out driving it. Fortunately, there was another Eos in the showroom I could use for photos, so, here are a few "Tips and Tricks from the School of Hard Knocks" to help others get the best possible results in the future.
Michael
Some additional elaboration...









Modified by PanEuropean at 10:31 PM 7-8-2007
 
#33 ·
Re: How to solve (EurovanTastic)

Matt,
Just for information purposes.
I was quoted $113.00 cdn at the VW dealership for the 30ml bottle. The parts person did offer a reasonable discount.
However, you can purchase the liquid product in a .5 kg jug (approx. 240 - 300ml) direct from the Canadian Dupont Distributor for about 1/4 the price, per 30ml.
The contact information can be found on this thread. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2985944
Realistically, if the seals only require lubricating once or twice a year, then the product cost from the VW dealer is actually insignificant. However if you want to lower the overall cost, you can consider the larger quantity at a significant long term savings.
I don't recall seeing any documentation on the shelf life of this product, but I'm certain if it is stored in a sealed container to protect against contamination, it will last pretty much forever.
Kevin




Modified by just4fun at 11:40 AM 2-21-2007
 
#34 ·
Re: How to solve (just4fun)

Hi Kevin:
DuPont also suggests that the Krytox lubricating products have a more or less indefinite shelf life - here is a link to their website: DuPont Krytox® Oils and Greases.
I strongly recommend that Eos owners use the OIL, not a grease. If I had to buy lubricant for my own Eos, I would (at this moment in time) buy the little bottle of Volkswagen supplied lubricant - the G 052 172 A1 stuff - only because we all know without any doubt at all that that is the exact correct stuff to use. If you go browsing through the DuPont Krytox® website, you will see that 'Krytox®' is a brand name that is used for a whole family of fluorinated ether based lubricants (oils and greases), not a name for a specific viscosity of lubricant for Eos roof seals. In fact, if you look at the DuPont detail page, you can see that there is a very wide range of viscosities available.
What we want to do, as owners, is maintain that very expensive and very sophisticated roof exactly the way VW suggests. Until we can find out the precise specification for the G 052 172 A1 lubricant - what its viscosity is, what grade it is, what other additives it may or may not have in it - I think we should stick to the safest path, which is to buy the little bottle from VW.
I'm very much in favour of saving money wherever possible, and I am certainly not trying to 'plug' the VW product. However, at this moment in time, and in this particular case, I think we should take the safest route and use only what we KNOW works. By the time we all use up our initial bottle of lubricant, we will probably have found out what the exact specs for the VW G 052 172 A1 lubricant are, and probably identified a less expensive way of sourcing the exact same thing.
One thing that I think it is important to stress - we want to use an OIL, not a GREASE. Greases have thickeners added to prevent them from being slung off of moving parts. The roof seals are not moving parts, and we want a lubricant that is 'oily' by nature so that it runs into all the crevices and can be easily absorbed by the seals.
Michael
 
#35 ·
Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »
Until we can find out the precise specification for the G 052 172 A1 lubricant - what its viscosity is, what grade it is, what other additives it may or may not have in it - I think we should stick to the safest path, which is to buy the little bottle from VW.
Michael

We can rule out any additives, when I pulled the MSDS Sheet, it 100% Krytox, no question about it. I'll try to re-do the picture later because it just cuts off skin contact information.




Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 7:52 PM 2-21-2007
 
#36 ·
Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)

I would like to add my thanks to you too Michael.
After my experience I wish I had bought the G 052 172 A1 as you recommend, instead of the GPL205 grease. I think I will try to remove as much of the grease as I can from the seals as it is making a bit of a mess of the paintwork and glass. It doesn't just wipe off...I spent a long time at the weekend removing the sticky smudges. My UK VW dealer didn't list the A1 liquid when I enquired mid-Jan, only the A2 spray or A3 paste. Has anyone managed to get hold of the A1 liquid in the UK?
Simon
 
#37 ·
Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »
If I had to buy lubricant for my own Eos, I would (at this moment in time) buy the little bottle of Volkswagen supplied lubricant - the G 052 172 A1 stuff - only because we all know without any doubt at all that that is the exact correct stuff to use.

Micheal,
I was about to go off on a detailed tangent about how certain I was we have already determined exactly what G 052 172 A1 is when it hit me like an ice pick in the forehead.
This is very similar to the warranty issues discussed in length with regard to motor oils, you have to be sure you are using a product that meets VW specifications to conform to warranty requirements.
I am confident Wolfsburger's research is sound, however, in the interests of protecting the warranty on the roof seals, I agree with you; until such time the composition is 100% confirmed, the recommendation is to use the VW product # G 052 172 A1.
You have my 100% support with regard to your recommendation.
Kevin
 
#38 ·
Re: How to solve (WolfsburgerMitFries)

Quote, originally posted by WolfsburgerMitFries »
... it is 100% Krytox, no question about it.

Hi Wolfsburger:
I hear what you are saying, but I'm not entirely sure that you are hearing what I am saying.
If you describe a product as '100% Krytox®', that's a bit like saying it is '100% Seagrams', or '100% Nestlé', or '100% IBM'. Krytox® is not a name of a specific product (for example, like Canadian Club whisky, Nescafe instant coffee, or ThinkPad notebook computers, all specific products made by the previously mentioned companies), it is a trademark that is used to describe a whole range of fluorinated ether based oils, greases, and synthetic lubricants. This is why I was careful to use the phrase 'special lubricant' in my post, rather than referring to the stuff as 'Krytox®'.
I'm not a chemist, so I can't speak with any knowledge about the differences between all the different Krytox® oils, greases, and synthetic lubricants, however, so far as the Eos is concerned, we want to be absolutely certain that we are getting the exact correct viscosity of the product that has been formulated with the exact correct dispersion and volatility characteristics that best suit lubrication of the roof seals. This is what I was getting at when I suggested that until we know precisely what the specification is of the product that comes in the little bottle from VW (VW's part number G 052 172 A1), we just buy that bottle and play it safe.
I am pretty sure that within a few months - certainly by the end of the summer, anyway - we will have determined the exact specs for the particular Krytox® product that comes in the bottle from VW. Until then, I'm suggesting that we not take the risk of making a mistake and applying the wrong product.
Michael
Which Krytox®? All of the following are 100% Krytox®

Here's a partial screenshot of the DuPont Krytox MSDS listing



Modified by PanEuropean at 11:46 PM 7-8-2007
 
#39 ·
Re: How to solve (hulahoops)

Quote, originally posted by hulahoops »
My UK VW dealer didn't list the A1 liquid when I enquired mid-Jan, only the A2 spray or A3 paste. Has anyone managed to get hold of the A1 liquid in the UK?

Hi Simon:
If your owner manual contains a reference to the G 052 172 part number with the A1 suffix (as the North American owner manuals do), I suggest you show it to your VW parts specialist and ask him or her to get you that exact product. If that exact product is not listed in the VW UK parts catalog, your parts specialist can get it by placing what is known as a 'red' order. I encountered a similar problem here in North America last month getting a replacement wheel well liner for a W12 powered Phaeton - the W12 liner has a vent in it and a part number suffix 'R', the North American ETKA catalog only showed a liner without a vent and a part number suffix of 'Q'. After talking with one of our 'forum friends' at VW of America, I found out you can order anything you want from anywhere in the world if you place what is called a 'red' order. All you need to do this is a good reason - and listing of a specific lubricant in the owner manual is a pretty good reason.
By the way - you might want to suggest to your parts specialist that he or she launch the ETKA parts catalog, but instead of selecting "Eos" and proceeding in the normal way to search for an Eos part, instead go to the menu button in the upper right, select 'Special Catalogs', then select 'Chemical Materials', then when the new page pops up, select 'Servicing Materials', and simply scroll down the list until G 052 172 A1 appears - the list is in numerical order. See the screen-shot below.
Michael
VW Parts Catalog Screenshot



Modified by PanEuropean at 11:47 PM 7-8-2007
 
#40 ·
Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

Yes, for sure, we were able to get the those seals that run lengthwise along either side of the glass roof panel right back to normal after poking, lubricating, and massaging them. In fact, most of us guessed that the point of water entry into the car was right at those pinches (deformations), because the seal was no longer patent to the side of the glass panel.

Hi Michael:
Thanks. I finally got one of the pinches formed back to normal. Hooray!! That pinch was at the center of the left side moonroof seal. However, the right side's seal is still deformed. It looks exactly like that picture you shown. It's deformed at the end part of the moonroof's seal. Much more deformed than the left side.
I applied and massaged the right side (pinch) again this afternoon and simply let the roof down overnight so that the seals were able to fully absorb the lubricant.
Now, how many attempts did you guys try to get that "stubborn" pinch to bounce back to normal? My goal is to at least get those pinches back up to normal. Of course, I haven't try hosing any water on my car, but I am also suspecting that the moonroofs' pinches were the point of water into the car. Any more advice you can provide me? Thanks in advance!



Modified by darien at 10:12 PM 2-21-2007
 
#41 ·
Re: How to solve (darien)

Hi Darien:
We found it quite easy to get the 'pinched' (deformed) areas of the seals at the side of the glass panel back to normal, even though we did most of the work the hard way - with the glass panel in the closed position, using our fingers (covered with special lubricant) to dig the seal up and move it back to its normal position - as shown in the photo below.
Honestly, I don't think it took us more than 5 minutes total time to fix the seal deformations on each side of the vehicle. The seals popped back up into thier original (desired) shape without any difficulty.
What we did notice - which is worth remarking about - is that after we had dug the seals out of their pinched position, when we then opened and closed the glass sunroof panel, the friction from the side of the glass panel moving downwards to its flush position then squashed the seals back to their original (deformed) position. This didn't impress any of us, so, we opened the glass panel again, rubbed a tiny bit of the special lubricant on the side of the glass panel, and then closed it. When it closed the second time, it didn't disturb the side seals at all, everything worked perfectly.
It might, perhaps, be better to dig out the pinched (deformed) portions of the side seals whilst the glass sunroof panel is closed, simply because the presence of the closed sunroof panel forms kind of a 'mould' to assist in coaxing the rubber seal to return to its original shape. This is just speculation on my part.
Did you find that when you lubricated the deformed side seal (presumably you did this with the glass roof panel open) that the seal retained its original deformed shape? If so, then maybe it might be best to lubricate deformed seals with the glass sunroof panel open - simply because this is the easiest way to get access to all portions of the seal - then to run a greasy fingertip along the sides of the glass roof panel, close the glass roof panel, then dig out any deformations that may remain with your fingertip and then leave the glass roof closed for a while, so that the seal is forced to re-learn the desired shape. Again, just a guess, just speculation.
I really need to go buy an Eos so I have one I can refer to myself...

Michael
The 'hard way' - maybe this might actually be 'the most efficient way', so far as deformations are concerned?
 
#42 ·
Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »


I hear what you are saying, but I'm not entirely sure that you are hearing what I am saying.

There's a lot of topics to cover...I'm not going to get them all, it would make for a post that was too large at one time.
There have been a lot very good points in this entire seal maintenance conversation, and I'm sure many people are following with this topic with great interest, so I'm going to start off with the observation that it would be in everyones best interest to accelerate the process of finding out out exactly what grade of Krytox is in the G 052 172 A1 bottle (for those who still need convincing)...however since the MSDS sheet does not reference an exact DuPont number, it may not be possible to produce a "holy grail" document concretely linking G 052 172 A1 to a specific viscosity (for example) GPL-105. So everyone interested in this topic is going to have to eventually ask themselves how much convincing they individually need.
I am still very passionate about providing information about purchasing from an alternate source, simply because of the enormous cost difference. Competition keeps people honest. A ½ KG jug of liquid Krytox is $155, which is more than 8X the quantity of Krytox in Volkswagens G 052 175 A1 which costs $95.
Based on use of one 30Ml bottle per year, you can currently buy an 8+ year supply for $155 if you can do without the Volkswagen bottle, or you'll pay $760 for the VW re-label. That's a $605 difference (actually slightly more), and a no brainer to me. You'll come out ahead in the middle of the 2nd year.
Now I do understand there's many different varieties of Krytox (71 as you pointed out) but come on, its obvious in the comprehensive list that there's greases (any of the 200 series part numbers), vacuum pump oils, food service numbers, Japan market products...the bulk of those you can instantly ignore, so lets not drag a red herring through the issue and over complicate it.
Krytox oils are 100 series, and "GPL" is for General Propose Lubricants which are the auto industry standard for control of squeaks and rattles (S&R). I keep pointing to this automotive industry specific DuPont news letter which everyone interested should read very carefully because it gives the exact part numbers for the purposes we (and the auto industry in general) are interested in.
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubrica...2.pdf
It examines the industry standard GPL-105 to thinner viscosity variants GPL-104 and GPL-103, and it appears that DuPont, based on extensive cycle tests, seems to think that there is cause to inform the auto industry that thinner variants might be a better idea because they appear to offer a lower coefficient of friction, particularly as time increases. I'm going to have to hold off on elaborate discussions concerning Krytox viscosity in this post, its a lot and would get far too wordy and off track.
There's always someone who wants to discuss warranty related issues, so I'll quickly touch on that. It appears that there's no recommended Krytox application interval, nor does the owners manual say the Krytox treatments are mandatory. So I think we can relax about what is in reality a liability conversation.
Michael, I understand you are very passionate about Volkswagens, you have an outstanding relationship with your dealer, you have contacts within the corporate structure of VW, you're a moderator on several forums...after all that, you're a strict company man. It would be disingenuous to think that those factors are not skewing your preference and recommendation exclusively toward the VW labeled bottle. I also understand that there's going to be people who will not rest unless they have the exact VW bottle that is pointed to in the owners manual. In those cases, you will be the people buying your Krytox at the VW parts counter.
In my case, I'm completely confident that my Krytox from a 3rd party vendor that costs a little over $19 an ounce is going to offer the exact same performance characteristics as your Krytox for $95 an ounce.
The reason I re-posted the MSDS picture up several posts above is to clearly show that the contents of the VW bottle is NOT some proprietary mixture of Krytox plus mystery additives for Volkswagens exclusive use on retractable hardtops...VW part number G 052 175 A1 existed long before the Eos, and its simply Krytox in oil form. Its NOT an Eos specific chemical, and I think its important to remember that.
So now we have both approaches up for people to examine and they can pick what they feel comfortable with.




Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 1:25 PM 2-24-2007
 
#43 ·
Re: How to solve (WolfsburgerMitFries)

Quote, originally posted by WolfsburgerMitFries »
Michael, I understand you are very passionate about Volkswagens, you have an outstanding relationship with your dealer, you have contacts within the corporate structure of VW, you're a moderator on several forums...after all that, you're a strict company man. It would be disingenuous to think that those factors are not skewing your preference and recommendation exclusively toward the VW labeled bottle.

Hi Wolfsburger:
You are correct with your assessment above. I'm very much an OEM person, in the sense that I only make modifications that are strictly OEM, and I generally follow the VW service recommendations pretty carefully. So, yes, in that sense, I am 'a strict company man'. However, I just want to make sure that you appreciate that I am not recommending that folks use the VW special lubricant just to put cash in VW's till... I'm only recommending it because we are not yet absolutely, positively certain what the specification for an exact replacement of the VW product is.
What I am going to do is write a letter to Volkswagen of America today, and ask if there is anything they can possibly do to lower the price of the G 052 172 A1 special lubricant. After all, it is in their best interest to get as many people as possible (dealers and owners) using that lubricant. We have a car that has won all sorts of awards, a car that most people acknowledge that it is a far superior car than similar competitive offerings, but VW is getting pilloried over roof leaks, squeaks, callbacks, even buybacks because the required lubricant is kind of expensive.
So, let's work on it from both ends - you try to find out what the DuPont part number is for the exact same stuff, and I will try to get VW to take a second look at the price they are charging for the lubricant that is distributed through the VW dealer network.
Michael
 
#44 ·
Re: How to solve (WolfsburgerMitFries)

Which Dupont product exactly is the same as the VW product; GPL 105?
I just received the grease GPL 205, It sounds like this is not absorbed as well as the oil.

Michael, thank you for the write up. I don't have the manual in front of me. Are there any seal that should not be lubricated?
Paul
 
#45 ·
Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)

Wolfsburger & Michael,
Thanks to both of you for the amazing wealth information you both bring to this forum. Your posts are well done, informative and valued.
-dawn
P.S. As an EOS owner who had a leak which was resolved - I have to toss a vote in for the Krytox gel.
 
#46 ·
I already have a tube of the 205 grease. While I will probably not be using it on the EOS-- as was originally planned-- I'm not regretting the purchase. It has a plethora of other uses around the house that will make it a valuable member of the "toolbox".
As for the EOS roof seals, to be safe, I've got my local VW parts guy bringing in a bottle of the VW branded stuff. This will be a temporary "keep the roof working properly" solution until we find out if VW will flex on the price, or we have the Krytox part number that matches the VW one.
Whatever the outcome, I still know more about the EOS and various lubricants than before I started reading the forums-- and in my mind, that's what these forums are all about!
Thanks to everyone.
--Jon
 
#48 ·
Re: How to solve (just4fun)

The VW MSDS sheets are 7 pages per part number. The key human hazard appears to be that liquid Krytox can be an eye irritant. Its definitely not a carcinogen, there's 2 testing bodies referenced at the bottom.

Section 2 is continued onto the next page with references to OSHA and Prop 65. My apologies for the smallish photo sizes, I'm trying to keep from throwing the width of this thread out of whack.

I had to splice 2 pages for section 8. The first sentence is useful for anyone wondering about being surrounded be Krytox all the time they are in the car.

You can compare that to how the GM MSDS sheet reads.




Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 10:44 PM 2-22-2007
 
#49 ·
Re:

I just wanted to add this bit of info. For all those living in an area where there may be be multiple VW dealers, you might want to call them as they may not all be selling at the same price. I called 5 dealers today and got prices ranging from $71 to $102 for G 052 172 A1. I know some of you may still want the DuPont product and that is ok. But for those who don't, you may not have to pay the higher OEM prices if you shop around.
 
#50 ·
Re: Re: (cb391)

I just called VW my dealer, they priced G 052 172 A1 at $71.07
Here's the fun part. Upon looking up the part number I gave, and seeing the price, the counterman said, "does that come in a bucket?" I had a very satisfying laugh with myself, then I said "no...its 1 ounce". To which he replied "ouch". Ouch indeed.


That will be $80,000 sir.



Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 11:44 PM 2-22-2007
 
#51 ·
Re: Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)

I kind of suspect that if we can get the various teams at VW of America talking to each other - in other words, get the support engineers and the marketing people to speak to the parts distribution people and tell them that it would be in everyone's best interest to drop the price of this G 052 172 A1 lubricant to the lowest possible level - then parts will drop the price.
My guess (as always, just a guess) is that there is a hard-working, well-intentioned employee somewhere in the parts distribution section of VW who originally looked at this lubricant and thought "Well, we might as well price that so that there is a reasonable markup on it - after all, we lost $1 billion in North America last year", but that same hard-working, well-intentioned employee is not aware that it would save VW tens of thousands of dollars if the lubricant was inexpensive enough that dealers and owners could buy it without a second thought and use it whenever they need it.
I bet that everyone who has ever worked for a large company in the past (or presently) can recognize this exact scenario from their own personal experience...
...the right hand often doesn't know what the left is doing in big organizations.
Michael
 
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