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How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks

434K views 332 replies 104 participants last post by  wcumming 
#1 · (Edited)
As many of you know, I don’t own an Eos. This makes it difficult to provide practical advice based on my own experience with the car, as I do in the Phaeton forum. The staff at my VW dealership (Volkswagen Richmond Hill) follow activities in the forum, and when a customer called to say that his Eos had a water leak, the service manager at my dealer invited me to come up and watch the problem-solving process.


The Eos with the water leak was the first Eos my dealer sold. It was delivered to the customer only a few days after the Eos went on sale here in North America. It has a fairly low VIN (in the 7,000’s), which suggests that it was probably built sometime in the summer of 2006. This is noteworthy, not because there is anything unique about a low VIN, but because the car is now 8 or 9 months old. This is certainly more than enough time for the seals on the car to dry out.
The owner of the Eos dropped it off at the dealership, and the first thing the technicians did was to have a look at the windows and roof to make sure that they were all operating smoothly and properly, and that all the measurements (especially the reference lines at the top of the window glass) were within specifications. No problems were found. The next step in the troubleshooting process was to carry out a ‘baseline water test’ to determine the extent of the leakage. The dealer principal sat in the driver seat, the windows were closed, and the car was flooded with large volumes of low-pressure water from a rather large hose in the wash bay. After about 30 seconds, he started honking the horn, and when the water was turned off, a very wet dealer principal emerged from the car. No doubt about it, the car leaked.
The leak manifested itself at the front left corner of the windshield, where the roof touches the top of the windshield. None of us knew where the water was getting in, but it was clear that the water was ‘getting out’- in other words, dripping into the cabin - at one specific location.
We all put our heads together to try and determine what the facts were. They were as follows:
1) The car was almost 9 months old, even though it was only delivered to the customer 5 months ago.
2) No-one had ever lubricated the rubber seals on the car.
3) The windows and roof all appeared to work properly, except for some deformation (pinching) of the seals on either side of the sunroof. This deformation appeared to be caused by the sunroof panel binding on the roof seal, and pulling part of the seal downwards.
4) All the technicians had been to Eos training.
5) All of us had read all the technical bulletins (TB’s) issued for the Eos.
6) None of us had ever read the owner manual.
7) No-one wanted to start any kind of dis-assembly. We wanted to try the ‘least invasive’ solutions first.
So, after we had all read the '3.2' section of the Owner Manual (this is the "Tips and Advice" section, and there is some really good information in there), and after some discussion, it was decided that since the owner manual suggests on page 25 of section 3.2 that the roof seals be lubricated with VW lubricant part number G 052 172 A1, maybe it would be a good idea to start by doing exactly that.
We ordered three bottles of lubricant. None of us knew how much would be needed, but we knew that the bottles were pretty small. Because the dealer principal was still wet from the baseline water test, he had no disagreement at all with the technician’s decision to order three bottles of lubricant. Because the lubricant would not arrive until the next day, we asked the PDI person to do a thorough detail of the car, to ensure that there was no dirt or other external influences on the car.
The next day, the lubricant arrived. We all took turns applying it – the technicians, myself, the PDI person, and some of the sales staff. We made some interesting discoveries:
1) An Eos has two different types of seals on it. Roof seals and the seals that windows touch are made of a different material than door seals or trunk lid seals.
2) These ‘different’ seals have sort of a rough texture, kind of like a cat’s tongue.
3) If the seals are dry (not lubricated), they will be quite hard, not pliable, and will not tightly conform to the window edge when the window is rolled up.
4) If the seals are dry, they have a dull finish, and sort of a ‘white’ luster to them.
5) It is easiest to lubricate the seals on either side of the sunroof if the sunroof is open.
6) It is easiest to lubricate the seal that goes across the middle rear of the roof if the roof is stopped partway through the retraction process, before the front part of the roof begins to lift off the windshield.
7) It is easiest to lubricate the windshield seal if the roof is fully retracted.
8) To lubricate seals at the top of the windows, put the lubricant on your finger, then rub it in.
9) If a seal looks deformed, rub lots of lubricant on it, and keep rubbing the seal until it ‘rehydrates’.
10) If you leave the roof open for an hour after doing the lubrication, the seals seem to suck up any excess lubricant that might be sitting on them.
After we finished lubricating all the seals, we conducted another water test. The results were “almost perfect”. There were no leaks from the roof, but there was a small leak – just a few drops – from the area beside the exterior rear view mirror on the driver side. Investigation revealed that we had lubricated the window seals there with the door closed, hence, we did not fully lubricate the seal – we missed the part that hides behind the exterior rear view mirror. After applying lubricant to this area, we carried out the water test again, and the result was perfection – after 15 minutes of hosing the car, not a single drop of water was found inside.
The PDI person dried off the car, and we noticed that there were greasy spots on the paint where we had unintentionally deposited excess lubricant. The excess lubricant can be easily removed from the painted surfaces with a paper towel and some windshield washer fluid – no fancy solvents are needed. Because the paint is not porous, the lubricant can’t sink into it.
Below are a whole bunch of photos that I took – hopefully this will explain the procedure better. Many thanks to all the service department staff at my VW dealer for their help making this post.
Michael
Eos Owner Manual - Page 25 of Section 3.2 (NAR English Version)

What it looked like before work began

When seals are not properly lubricated, they bind and get pinched, and as a result, do not keep water out.


Visual characteristics of a seal that needs lubrication

This is the stuff to use, simply because this is what the owner manual says we should use.

The alignment rack is a handy place to use to do the work.

Apply the lubricant sparingly, right out of the bottle (clip the top of the spout).





With the roof in this position, you can get the "butt ends" of the window seals, as well as the rear seal that runs horizontally across the roof.
Don't let the roof lift up from the windshield - otherwise, it will come back down on you!

Don't forget this seal.

...but, DO NOT LUBRICATE the fuzzy seal that touches the trunk lid.
This seal is obviously different from the others - it is fuzzy, not rubber.




 
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#52 ·
Re: Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)

Interestingly, my dealership has a location in the city in which I live, and in the city in which I work, and they are selling for different prices
The dealership in Winston Salem is selling for MSRP = $71.+
The dealership in Greensboro is selling for $78.18, and admitted there was a markup over MSRP when I asked.

Truly shopping around can make a difference!
William
 
#53 ·
Re: Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)

Now, this only my opinion, but i think a very smart move by the dealer on the sales level would be to supply the customer with 1 bottle of the vw product or even get VW of america to supply it with the car. Even a quick explanation by the sales consultant about application would be useful as well.

Mabye it's too much to hope that VW will include a small insert in the owners manual about application.

I would love to mention it to them and see what comes of it

The EOS is a beautiful car and well, not the cheapest, supplying this to the customer would be a smart move on behalf of VW....but what do i know?..


My dealer sells the stuff for $93.00 CN, if anyone's interested



Modified by EurovanTastic at 4:59 PM 2-22-2007
 
#54 ·
Re: Re: (EurovanTastic)

Quote, originally posted by EurovanTastic »
Now, this only my opinion, but i think a very smart move by the dealer on the sales level would be to supply the customer with 1 bottle of the vw product...

Agreed. That is what my own VW dealer has decided to do - they are going to lubricate the Eos roof seals on the day of delivery to the customer (not the day that the PDI is done, but the day of delivery), and then give the customer the remainder of the bottle of special lubricant, along with providing instructions about how to use it.
The trick will be to get all the knowledge we have accumulated in this discussion disseminated out to all the other VW dealers. My guess is that most dealers will see that lubricating the roof seals on the day of delivery is self-serving - it will increase customer satisfaction and decrease callbacks and warranty claims. It's not too hard to come to a policy decision when you look at it that way.
Michael
 
#55 ·
Re: Re: (PanEuropean)

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

Agreed. That is what my own VW dealer has decided to do - they are going to lubricate the Eos roof seals on the day of delivery to the customer (not the day that the PDI is done, but the day of delivery), and then give the customer the remainder of the bottle of special lubricant, along with providing instructions about how to use it.

That sounds wonderful, although they should also lubricate them when they receive them at the dealer, as both of the Eos's on my dealer's lot have dry, white-spotted seals worse than mine.
Having the top work its best when showing off to potential buyers also serves the dealers well.
(this esp. occurs to me given the talk about how old the Eos may already be before it is sold.)
Of course, for those lucky enough to have real custom-ordering, the Eos may be showing up just for a brief inspection before it is taken home.
William
 
#56 ·
Re: Re: (kghia)

Quote, originally posted by kghia »
...although they should also lubricate them when they receive them at the dealer...

I don't think that any of us have sufficient product knowledge to make that statement. Lubrication addresses squeak and leak issues, not operational issues.
Michael
 
#57 ·
Re: (PanEuropean)

several people have complained of leaks from the first day, and I believe that someone (grubbygirl?) said that there was water in a side pocket at the dealer's.
Leaking IS an operational issue-- the roof & seals are not operating propperly in the keep-out-water function. Seals operating quietly also earned the Eos an extra year in development.(the wind problem)
Doesn't it make sense to prevent the squeaks and leaks BEFORE sales, so that no (additional) customers find problems in the lot while considering purchase?
I tell you, if I were looking at a new $30k+ car and saw water inside, that would probably settle it right then, at least for that particular car, if not the entire model.
William
ps. I did have a car dealer show me a Ghia with water in the pass. floor. He said "oh it rained last night and the window was cracked open"-- and then did nothing! I wanted to clean it up myself! That was one of several reasons to not buy that Ghia, made me wonder what reasons I didn't see.
 
#58 ·
As a follow up to my earlier post, we had several hours of heavy rain yesterday and last night.
I now have no leaks.

FYI - I used the 205 grease which I bought in the 8oz tube. I did find it easy to apply and it did get easy absorbed into the seals, making them softer and more pliable.
But, and it's only a small matter, I believe the G 052 172 A1 product is the better solution and I will be switching to it for the visible seals at least.. I feel the 205 leaves to much of a greasy residue on the seals that will smear in places if you are not careful.
 
#61 ·
Re: Re: (vweosdriver)

I called my dealer's parts dept and ordered a bottle right after I read Michael's outstanding write-up. The guy quoted me $71 dollars and then said, "Woah, what is this?" I told him all about this forum and suggested they check it out. Then I said, "Can you help me out on the price seeing as I just bought the Eos not a month ago?" He gave me 10% off.
So, it never hurts to ask.
 
#62 ·
Re: How to solve (hulahoops)

Good morning everyone

An update on pricing. I have found that vw-auto-parts.com sells the VW labeled liquid krytox for $51.00. You just need to put in the VW part number, and away you go.

Looks like it might take 2 weeks or so to get the liquid, but, you're saving quite a bit of money.
Enjoy all!



Modified by Timokreon at 10:23 AM 2-24-2007
 
#66 ·
Re: How to solve (Timokreon)

Quote, originally posted by Timokreon »
Yeah, it goes to trademotion.com after clicking on "vw parts". From there, put in the VW code for the liquid, the "g 052 172 a1", and it will come up.
They must have raised the price already... Mine was $51 and free shipping via usps.

That's a good point. With the magic of the computer age also comes adaptive price software. If an item starts selling rapidly (for example, because someone puts information or a link in an internet chat room) the pricing software at the vendor in question automatically adapts based on the increased demand and raises the price. Many retailers, both online and in real life have adaptive price software, so if you might want to be careful what you post on the internet. You can very easily kill the goose that laid the golden egg, so to speak.


Modified by PanEuropean at 6:55 PM 2-24-2007
 
#67 ·
Re: How to solve (Timokreon)

Quote, originally posted by Timokreon »
Yeah, it goes to trademotion.com after clicking on "vw parts". From there, put in the VW code for the liquid, the "g 052 172 a1", and it will come up.
They must have raised the price already... Mine was $51 and free shipping via usps.

Have you received your lubricant from this site yet? I was considering ordering some but wanted to make sure it was an ok site/company to deal with. You never know what you are getting when buying things online...
 
#68 ·
Re: How to solve (Bster67)

Another quick update, based on material safety in handling concerns raised by Kevin in Canada. After reviewing all the DuPont newsletters for the auto industry, I've found their 4th newsletter gets into safety/handling concerns. Probably the most interesting quote is...
"It presents no danger from short-term skin exposure or from inhalation of decomposition products at high temperatures. And Krytox exhibits no other known hazards. Actually with a toxicity level comparable to sugar and salt water, it is not surprising that Krytox is used in cosmetic products!
Krytox is not included on any hazardous SARA EHS, CERCLA, or SARA toxic chemicals list; nor is it regulated by the EPA, DOT, or FDA. In fact, we have been awarded an NSF approval for use in certain applications with incidental food contact."
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubrica...4.pdf




Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 3:07 PM 2-26-2007
 
#71 ·
Re: How to solve (darien)

I've heard a lot of good things about www.1stvwparts.com. They don't advertise here on Vortex, but the parts manager there is a member here on Vortex. It seems that the company is actually a VW dealer, and they are creative enough to run an Internet parts business on the side. Based on what I have read in all the other forums, I think you can buy there with confidence.
Michael
 
#72 ·
Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)

Michael,hi there,im still waiting for my EOS which is in the port,about one more week or so they tell me.Today i went to VW spare parts department in Nicosia and asked if they had some G 052 172 A1.they said they didnt but could order it..delivery time...........2 months or more because its classified as a chemical and the cant bring it by air
do you know where i can order it from Europe without all thi hastle? thanks Andy.
 
#74 ·
Re: How to solve (andythai)

Hi Andy:
It is a chemical, that is true, but it is not a 'dangerous good' by any means. In other words, it presents no more of a hazard for shipping that toothpaste does.
Perhaps your best alternative might be to get a VW dealer in Europe to send you a bottle of it by post. The whole package is very small and lightweight (no larger than a little airline miniature bottle of alcohol), it could easily be shipped in a 10 cm square box... total weight perhaps 150 grams at most.
Michael
 
#76 ·
Update for any interested UK Eos owners who still have leak issues. My Eos (delivered 13 January) still has an occasional drip onto the interior sill as I described in an earlier post. It seems to be completely random - heavy rain can leave it bone dry but then after a wash the drip can appear.
The car has been to the nearest dealer with an Eos trained technician and "recall 61A8" was apparently carried out, the car was water tested (not sure how) and declared to be leak free.
When the drip re-appeared a few days ago I e-mailed the salesman with a copy of Michael's post attached. I have been contacted by the Service Manager who advised that they believed that the dealer who carried out the previous work had lubricated some of the seals (no mention was made of the VW lubricant so it may or may not have been that which was used but I would hope so). He said the special lubricant was on back order (ie out of stock) as there was none in the UK at the moment(!) and it would arrive in 7 to 10 days. When it arrives, the car will be booked in and they (the supplying dealer) will carry out a full lubrication.
I will update you all as to the results as soon as I can. I sincerely hope they do the work as thoroughly as Michael and his dealership and achieve the same results!!
Peter
 
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