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    1. #101
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      So you being a reckless idiot was somehow projected onto me. Got it. Just because you irresponsibly went 150 in your Z06 doesn’t make me the same kind of knob. Your post explains the type of driving that I don’t tolerate, and that’s bombing straight aways. There is zero need for that, and it’s massively unsafe. Get the car up to the speed it needs to be at to get the rotation you want on the brakes into the next corner.

      If you say a tight corner is fun at 30, you WILL NOT need to go twice that speed if you have 400 hp. Cornering speed and horsepower have zero correlation. Why would you even make that statement, as its 100% false.

      I might just be slow on the uptake but it slowly sounds to me like you have zero idea of what you’re doing and how to safely have fun, so I’m over discussing this topic with you. If you ever make it to NorCal PM me and we’ll go for a run; it’s slowly becoming a TCL tradition to go on a fun run with me so you can see that you can have fun linking 2nd and 3rd gear corners, not bomb straights (plus there aren’t many to bomb on the right roads), and be safe.
      The disconnect here seems to be the opposite - that I do know what I'm doing. I started racing in 1994 and at this point have thousands of laps in on various tracks. Going even 7/10 on a deserted public road is generally going to mean 100+ between corners in a fast car. If you're not braking hard for a corner, that's not "spirited" at all. That's leisurely driving, like a warmup lap behind a pace car.

      Maybe that experience has made it harder to have fun driving like you do. To me that's just taking it easy. When you guys talk about "bombing canyons" or whatever, I assume that you're running hard - not coasting from corner to corner warming up tires.

      ...which is why I've asked for videos so we could have figured this all out long ago instead of having communication difficulties cause a bunch of unnecessary tension.

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    3. #102
      Member kiznarsh's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      I look amazing in all pics. *hides behind keyboard*
      Damn straight Buscemi!

      Quote Originally Posted by Fined View Post
      No need to even speed! Trying to maintain 45mph through the twisties there even with sticky tires was challenging. Sure you might be able to hit 65 on a small straight but mostly it was just very technical tight corners linked one after the other. Sort of a driving nirvana.
      This. I personally enjoy corners a lot more than straights and a lot of the mountain roads have a 50 or 55 mph limit. You're not taking hairpins anywhere close to those speeds.


      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      ...which is why I've asked for videos so we could have figured this all out long ago instead of having communication difficulties cause a bunch of unnecessary tension.
      Problem is unless you have data overlaid on top, videos don't always give a good indication of speed, especially with stabilization that really smooths things out.



      Don't think I never exceeded 60, but I also never felt the need. With a more powerful car, I'm sure my corner approach speeds would be higher, but personally don't know if I'd enjoy it more.

      Another important factor is road familiarity. Knowing which corners open up vs. tighten up makes a huge difference in how you're taking it.

    4. #103
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      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      I keep asking because you never actually answer. Post a video or at least a map of these mythical roads with no enforced speed limits that you can safely drive flat out on in an extremely capable Lotus.

      We don't have that anywhere East of the Mississippi. Roads with super tight corners, if they're paved at all, are 1.2 lanes wide with no center line and trees blocking the view through nearly every corner so it is 110% reckless to drive hard on them even if there were no cops... but there will be cops. If you don't kill yourself, you will go to jail.

      I can't believe that you have personal racetracks available all over. You have to be exaggerating. CA is awesome enough already without it being Adult Disneyland 24/7 for free with no risk. That's just rubbing salt in the rest of the world's wounds.
      *checks Google Maps for Corning NY*

      I see plenty of suitable roads. What are you on about?
      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      Maybe I just have a different idea of "spirited" driving. If you're spending most of your time coasting instead of being hard on one of the pedals, that isn't spirited to me.
      Sounds to me like you wouldn't be happy on any road except a track. What you are describing is not "spirited" driving. It is straight-up hard driving. I think you are conflating the two.
      Last edited by Elite_Deforce; 03-24-2020 at 03:05 PM.
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      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
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      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    5. #104
      How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      So you being a reckless idiot was somehow projected onto me. Got it. Just because you irresponsibly went 150 in your Z06 doesn’t make me the same kind of knob. Your post explains the type of driving that I don’t tolerate, and that’s bombing straight aways. There is zero need for that, and it’s massively unsafe. Get the car up to the speed it needs to be at to get the rotation you want on the brakes into the next corner.

      If you say a tight corner is fun at 30, you WILL NOT need to go twice that speed if you have 400 hp. Cornering speed and horsepower have zero correlation. Why would you even make that statement, as its 100% false.

      I might just be slow on the uptake but it slowly sounds to me like you have zero idea of what you’re doing and how to safely have fun, so I’m over discussing this topic with you. If you ever make it to NorCal PM me and we’ll go for a run; it’s slowly becoming a TCL tradition to go on a fun run with me so you can see that you can have fun linking 2nd and 3rd gear corners, not bomb straights (plus there aren’t many to bomb on the right roads), and be safe.
      You don't know me.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      You take that fake rich sled back to the toothless masses and rub their stupid meth faces in your success. Do it for me.

    6. #105
      Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      You all are badasses, I don't think I've ever driven 100mph. Heck, the only time I did more than 80 for any length of time was driving down the east coast on one of those big, fast, multi-lane stretches of I-95.

      Around here, our highways are all 65mph. I set my CC at 70 and I'm generally passing more people than being passed. Our backroads can be twisty fun, but not one is doing 30 over on them, you'd dead. Plus we have cops everywhere.

    7. #106
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      I think some stuff might have been lost in translation. I get where troyguitar is coming from. A big part of it is understanding what kind of driver you are. To me, unfortunately, if there aren't 11 tents it's not fun. It's just a tease. Huge part of why I stopped riding my bike on the street. That isn't to say a spirited drive is dumb or w/e (though I still question the safety of it). Just that like track driving it's def not for everybody. Where I think troyguitar messed up was in trying to understand a kind of driving that clearly doesn't suit his taste.

      Personally like I've said before I am not a big fan of street driving in general. I drive quickly at least in part to get off the road ASAP. I realized a few weeks back that traffic makes me anxious.

    8. #107
      How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      I think some stuff might have been lost in translation. I get where troyguitar is coming from. A big part of it is understanding what kind of driver you are. To me, unfortunately, if there aren't 11 tents it's not fun. It's just a tease. Huge part of why I stopped riding my bike on the street. That isn't to say a spirited drive is dumb or w/e (though I still question the safety of it). Just that like track driving it's def not for everybody. Where I think troyguitar messed up was in trying to understand a kind of driving that clearly doesn't suit his taste.

      Personally like I've said before I am not a big fan of street driving in general. I drive quickly at least in part to get off the road ASAP. I realized a few weeks back that traffic makes me anxious.
      I'm in no way saying this because of your history at the track, it's just something I've noticed from being both on a track and fast on the road....

      The confidence that comes in having run-off, a wall, tires, whatever it may be, is comforting when the other option is flying off a bluff in the middle of nowhere with no one around. I'm not saying that's the only reason people prefer the track, but there's definitely a sense of security in knowing that as long as you're buckled up properly and wearing your helmet, things are gonna be okay. For many people, that makes it easier to push the limits.

      With that being said, I don't mind spending time on a track, but due to where I live, it's just not realistic. To the mountain roads I go.

      In fact, I think I might go for a drive this afternoon.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      You take that fake rich sled back to the toothless masses and rub their stupid meth faces in your success. Do it for me.

    9. #108
      Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      I think some stuff might have been lost in translation. I get where troyguitar is coming from. A big part of it is understanding what kind of driver you are. To me, unfortunately, if there aren't 11 tents it's not fun. It's just a tease. Huge part of why I stopped riding my bike on the street. That isn't to say a spirited drive is dumb or w/e (though I still question the safety of it). Just that like track driving it's def not for everybody. Where I think troyguitar messed up was in trying to understand a kind of driving that clearly doesn't suit his taste.

      Personally like I've said before I am not a big fan of street driving in general. I drive quickly at least in part to get off the road ASAP. I realized a few weeks back that traffic makes me anxious.
      It's not just the driver though, but also the roads. There are back roads near my house where I can easily hit 80+mph and take turns at 60 mph, but that's as much about the roads themselves as it is about my comfort at going that fast. Then there's the roads like where Brendan lives, to which, I there aren't many places like it. Extremely technical roads with limited space between turns, very narrow in places (with limited to no run-off), and variations in the surface. So you take that info and superimpose the complexity of being a road open to the public and you're simply not going anywhere near 100 mph for any extended period of time. It's not really a matter of who's the better or balsier driver at that point. Conditions play as much of a role in your speed as your ability behind the wheel. Brendan and Troy can go back and forth on this, but I don't think it's at all an apples to oranges comparison.

    10. #109
      Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      It's not just the driver though, but also the roads. There are back roads near my house where I can easily hit 80+mph and take turns at 60 mph, but that's as much about the roads themselves as it is about my comfort at going that fast. Then there's the roads like where Brendan lives, to which, I there aren't many places like it. Extremely technical roads with limited space between turns, very narrow in places (with limited to no run-off), and variations in the surface. So you take that info and superimpose the complexity of being a road open to the public and you're simply not going anywhere near 100 mph for any extended period of time. It's not really a matter of who's the better or balsier driver at that point. Conditions play as much of a role in your speed as your ability behind the wheel. Brendan and Troy can go back and forth on this, but I don't think it's at all an apples to oranges comparison.
      Well according to him I'm either destined for jail or a coffin, or a slow poke who exaggerates, so I'm done trying to convince him of anything. I'll let him grind his axe on someone else.

      You did my usual loop with me at my mid day pace. Like you said, there's more factors at play on those roads than the car has to be exhausted or I'm not enjoying this. I can't imagine a single car guy who would have done that loop with us and said "eh, that was boring, that was just a lame cruise." Well, hushy would, because that was the mid day pace where you leave a lot more in reserve.

      Next time you're out here you gotta try the Lotus.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen. Assetto Corsa Discord Link. Join us for some sim racing fun.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    11. #110
      Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      roads with limited space between turns, very narrow in places (with limited to no run-off), and variations in the surface.
      This is our roads, even the ones that aren't potholed like moon craters. Plus deer, cops, blind driveways, etc. etc.

      I need to get out on a track sometime, I'd love to explore that more.

    12. #111
      Senior Member Wimbledon's Avatar
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      Here it is

      2018 Fiat 500e
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    13. #112
      Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      What bugged me about the Z when I drove it was that it was huge compared to my S2000 at the time. It seems like very few sporty cars are devoted to actually keeping their vehicles physically small. I'm not sure Nissan will have any hope of making their new Z small if it's still just sharing the midsize sedan platform as it always has.

    14. #113
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      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      What bugged me about the Z when I drove it was that it was huge compared to my S2000 at the time. It seems like very few sporty cars are devoted to actually keeping their vehicles physically small. I'm not sure Nissan will have any hope of making their new Z small if it's still just sharing the midsize sedan platform as it always has.
      The 370Z is small. It's, like, five inches shorter than a 718 Cayman.

    15. #114
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      i hope new Z should be a (new) GR86 (rumor 255hp turbo 4)/Type R fighter... Leave the GTR to fight the big guys (911, Corvette). I don't mind the new Z is a turbo 4 RWD with 250-350hp. I rather want a cheaper RWD choice than another Supra/Corvette price level product. Leave the Infiniti version of the Z to fight in the price bracket.

      In the engine down sizing era:
      new turbo 4 is the new V6
      new V6 turbo is the new V8
      “I am not a Mac user unless under duress.” - John Carmack

    16. #115
      Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wimbledon View Post
      Here it is



      Having run a Nissan store, and seen the product releases, this really isn't far off the mark.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen. Assetto Corsa Discord Link. Join us for some sim racing fun.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    17. #116
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      Looks like an altima hatchback ,sorry dotn like

      Id love to see some Z32 esque headlights

    18. #117
      Chili Bigot Seabird's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wimbledon View Post
      Here it is

      *Ugly AF pic*
      "First, I'm going to go down on you real slow and make you happy. Then I'm going climb up and fvck you hard." - Gas Prices

    19. #118
      Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Canaletto View Post
      The 370Z is small. It's, like, five inches shorter than a 718 Cayman.
      Have you sat in one though? It feels enormous. Maybe because of the high cowl of the Z due to being front engined? It's also a good deal heavier when you consider how close they are in external dimensions. (it's not five inches shorter, but I understand your point)



      If they can make it narrower and lower the cowl, maybe shave off a hundred pounds or so that would be pretty amazing.

    20. #119
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      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      Have you sat in one though? It feels enormous. Maybe because of the high cowl of the Z due to being front engined? It's also a good deal heavier when you consider how close they are in external dimensions. (it's not five inches shorter, but I understand your point)



      If they can make it narrower and lower the cowl, maybe shave off a hundred pounds or so that would be pretty amazing.
      I think its terrible visibility makes it feel huge. I had a 350Z and that was its main problem. Despite it being under 170" long parallel parking was always a nervous affair for me. And I grew up parallel parking in NYC.

      It's on a platform they built SUVs on. The cowl is what it is. To be fair, the Z hasn't been a sports car in 40+ years; the Z33/Z34 are smaller + lighter than the Z32TT. And I think the Z has either been on or shared ****load of components with sedans for about that long as well. It has always been a parts bin special

    21. #120
      Member t44tq's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      I keep asking because you never actually answer. Post a video or at least a map of these mythical roads with no enforced speed limits that you can safely drive flat out on in an extremely capable Lotus.

      We don't have that anywhere East of the Mississippi. Roads with super tight corners, if they're paved at all, are 1.2 lanes wide with no center line and trees blocking the view through nearly every corner so it is 110% reckless to drive hard on them even if there were no cops... but there will be cops. If you don't kill yourself, you will go to jail.

      I can't believe that you have personal racetracks available all over. You have to be exaggerating. CA is awesome enough already without it being Adult Disneyland 24/7 for free with no risk. That's just rubbing salt in the rest of the world's wounds.
      I don't know about in your neck of the woods, but in Chester and Lancaster counties, PA as well as lots of rural Maryland have great driving roads that are really scenic and great fun to drive at 50-60 mph with a speed limit of 45 or 55. It's rural, so not that many cops. Of course, in Lancaster county, you really have to watch out for Amish buggies that pop up into view very quickly when you're driving at a brisk pace. The roads can be narrow in some areas but that also depends on the car. I didn't think they felt narrow in my clownshoe, nor were they particularly narrow in the V70R, but they felt narrow in the Corvette.

    22. #121
      Member t44tq's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      This is NOT me. Just a video I found of one road I enjoy, with some total tool bags driving, and doing it very, very wrong (crossing double yellows, going slow mid corner, then gunning it on straights). People like these idiots are the ones that draw attention from the cops.
      That road looks like a lot of fun but not the way those bozos were driving. I think it would be fun even while staying in your lane, watching out for cyclists and motorbikes. Admittedly, I'm not fond of mountain roads like that- one misstep and you're going to fall off.

    23. #122
      Member t44tq's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      The disconnect here seems to be the opposite - that I do know what I'm doing. I started racing in 1994 and at this point have thousands of laps in on various tracks. Going even 7/10 on a deserted public road is generally going to mean 100+ between corners in a fast car. If you're not braking hard for a corner, that's not "spirited" at all. That's leisurely driving, like a warmup lap behind a pace car.

      Maybe that experience has made it harder to have fun driving like you do. To me that's just taking it easy. When you guys talk about "bombing canyons" or whatever, I assume that you're running hard - not coasting from corner to corner warming up tires.

      ...which is why I've asked for videos so we could have figured this all out long ago instead of having communication difficulties cause a bunch of unnecessary tension.
      You say that you know what you're doing, but admittedly in your own words, you've done 150 on a "fun road," which I assume is a public road, not a race track? That's just stupid and reckless. Most racers I know save that kind of stuff for the track, because if you've done thousands of laps in a fast car, you know that there is really nothing that you can drive on the street that measures up to a fast race car on the track. In essence, street cars become rather boring. Which explains why a lot of F1 drivers often have fairly mundane street cars for daily use.

    24. #123
      Banned NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      Closest track to me is at least 250 miles in any direction.

      Closest AutoX is at least 2.5-3 hours away (100-150 miles).
      The closest FIA track is 2 miles by car.
      The closest carting venue is 2 miles by car.
      The closest autocross course is 2 miles by car.
      The closest motocross park is 1 mile by car.
      The closest small venue track with rental cars is 11 miles by car.

      We also have dirt track and drag strips in the area.

    25. #124
      Member t44tq's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      Have you sat in one though? It feels enormous. Maybe because of the high cowl of the Z due to being front engined? It's also a good deal heavier when you consider how close they are in external dimensions. (it's not five inches shorter, but I understand your point)



      If they can make it narrower and lower the cowl, maybe shave off a hundred pounds or so that would be pretty amazing.
      You picked the wrong version.

      The non-NISMO version of the 370Z is 167.5 in long. The 718 Cayman S is 172.4 in long. 4.9 in difference.

      370Z Sport is 3386 lbs. 718 Cayman S is 3087 lbs. 299 lbs. difference.

      The 370Z feels bigger because the dash feels higher, the door sills are higher, it feels like you're in a bathtub. The Cayman is better packaged, probably because it's on its own platform, which isn't shared with a bunch of other mainstream vehicles. Mid engine layout also helps in keeping the nose low (less pedestrian safety concerns).

    26. #125
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      Finally, here it is:


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