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    1. #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lwize View Post
      If only the Chevy Bolt had decent seats, and setting up a home charging system at my home weren't a nigh impossible task.
      FWIW a revised Bolt is coming soon with different seats and interior.

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    3. #52
      Quote Originally Posted by someguy123 View Post
      Here’s a question I got the other day: Are EV(Tesla) owners considered car enthusiasts? Since you also can’t “work” on your car like ICE cars anymore.
      Why can't you? There are a ton of suspension and brake mods out there for Model 3's. Wheels, tires and aero as well. And now we're on the verge of having aftermarket upgrades for power as well . . .

    4. #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      You can't even tell the engine is running in my FIL's 2019 Tacoma. Their 2019 Tiguan is the same. You don't even hear or feel the engine start/stop at traffic lights.

      In any modern car that's as expensive as the Model 3 you're not going to feel or hear the engine or drivetrain while cruising at highway speeds, at least over the road and wind noise.
      Nonsense. You may not really notice the engine much on cars like that, but a lot of that is that you've been accustomed to tuning out engine noise from a lifetime of car travel. The first time I got in an EV and turned it on it was just eerie- you don't even realize how much you've gotten accustomed to a certain baseline level of NVH. When it's gone, it's a revelation. I've been some really quiet cars (including a Tacoma and a Tiguan and even quieter cars like an S class) and neither are remotely as quiet as an EV at low speeds. You can't beat total silence by muffling noise. Sure, on the highway the vast majority of the noise is wind/tire noise and the effect isn't that noticeable there. But it's huge at idle and low speeds.

      Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want a world where EVs are the only option, but they are really compelling for a daily commuter car.
      Last edited by Nealric; 06-15-2020 at 02:33 PM.

    5. #54
      Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      Nonsense. You may not really notice the engine much on cars like that, but a lot of that is that you've been accustomed to tuning out engine noise from a lifetime of car travel. The first time I got in an EV and turned it on it was just eerie- you don't even realize how much you've gotten accustomed to a certain baseline level of NVH. When it's gone, it's a revelation. I've been some really quiet cars (including a Tacoma and a Tiguan and even quieter cars like an S class) and neither are remotely as quiet as an EV at low speeds. You can't beat total silence by muffling noise. Sure, on the highway the vast majority of the noise is wind/tire noise and the effect isn't that noticeable there. But it's huge at idle and low speeds.

      Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want a world where EVs are the only option, but they are really compelling for a daily commuter car.
      This is spot on. Wife had a rental 7 series. Got into to check it out, turned it on and the thing shook. I was expecting an EV like experience and nope. Even startup has a shake and sound as little as it may be. Whats even more different is accleration. Even the 7 series goes through gears where you can hear and feel. An EV just floats on with its 1 speed box. If anyone should be using EV power, its Roll Royce. They've essentially been trying to mimic the experience all along.
      Slow Car Fast

    6. #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      If anyone should be using EV power, its Roll Royce. They've essentially been trying to mimic the experience all along.
      Yeah, kind of weird that nobody has made an ultralux EV yet. That's really the perfect market for an EV.

    7. #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      Yeah, kind of weird that nobody has made an ultralux EV yet. That's really the perfect market for an EV.
      Why is that weird? Mainstream automakers are just now preparing to release dedicated BEVs. Rolls-Royce already dipped their toe into the EV waters with the 103EX concept but surely won't be releasing anything until they can produce something with great range, no compromises, and customer demand.

      I think the biggest obstacle is the last piece. RR and the like listen to their customers very closely.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

    8. #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
      Why can't you? There are a ton of suspension and brake mods out there for Model 3's. Wheels, tires and aero as well. And now we're on the verge of having aftermarket upgrades for power as well . . .
      Personally, I'd be pretty wary of modifying a Tesla, considering it doesn't really seem to be clear who even owns the car. I don't want to put some new wheels and suspension on the car and then have Tesla stop sending support or updates for it, because even though I paid for the car, it seems like Tesla still owns it.

      With that being said, my next new car purchase will most likely be an EV of some sort. I've come to the realization that most new cars feel so disconnected, I might as well be driving an EV and saving on gas and maintenance costs.

    9. #58
      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      Why is that weird? Mainstream automakers are just now preparing to release dedicated BEVs. Rolls-Royce already dipped their toe into the EV waters with the 103EX concept but surely won't be releasing anything until they can produce something with great range, no compromises, and customer demand.

      I think the biggest obstacle is the last piece. RR and the like listen to their customers very closely.
      Uhh... for the reasons we’ve just been discussing. Cars like RR are all about reducing NVH to a minimum. An EV power train is a great way to do that.

      I’m not sold on the “customer demand” as a prerequisite. Often, customers don’t know what they want until it’s available.

    10. #59
      Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      Yeah, kind of weird that nobody has made an ultralux EV yet. That's really the perfect market for an EV.
      It's looking like Cadillac may be the first one for something of the sort, possibly with the 1000 horsepower powertrain of the Hummer (or maybe Cadillac only needs 800hp) and a 200kwh battery. It should be upwards of $100k and be far more traditionally luxurious than a Tesla Model X, most likely. Tesla has had to cut corners in places and one of them is their interior luxury compared to other mainline luxury car makers.

    11. #60
      Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      Uhh... for the reasons we’ve just been discussing. Cars like RR are all about reducing NVH to a minimum. An EV power train is a great way to do that.

      I’m not sold on the “customer demand” as a prerequisite. Often, customers don’t know what they want until it’s available.
      They also want a long range, which we know hasn’t been achieved by anyone outside of Tesla yet. When they can make a Phantom sized vehicle do 300-400mi I’m sure we’ll see one.

      As for the customer demand part, Rolls Royce regularly trots out concepts and floats ideas by their customers. I actually do think they know what their [relatively] small customer base wants. Younger customers have already indicated they’re open to EVs but it’s got to be a no compromise operation. They also expect to see increased demand when/if ICE cars are banned from city centers. I don’t expect RR to announce serious plans for another year or two.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

    12. #61
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      Three weeks ago, we test drove a Model 3 to replace the Si. A move is happening, commutes are getting longer and the 3 was a wonderful place to spend time. The seats were some of the most comfortable I've ever sat in. Currently on our 2nd i3, and had a Prius Plug In before that, and EV ownership (well, leasing-ship) had been nothing short of wonderful.

      A Model 3's operating costs are so low, that it is easily the payment of a Camry - except never going for fuel unless you're on a road trip. The monthly nut is not monetary thing, it's a psychological thing and we'll be over that once the move is done next month.

      We also just leased a new Bolt last Tuesday for my Mom. It, too is a wonderful car - really wonderful for what it cost! At 6'8/340 pounds I've had zero issues with the seats even after a two hour ride last Friday.They seats have a lot of range of adjustment that I think just takes since working out to hit the spot. The i3 goes back in August, so I'm piling up miles on it.

      EV ownership still takes some people to open up their minds. We have a friend insistent 300 miles of range wasn't enough for his daily - so he just got a CPO 540i. The entire concept of leaving home every day with a "full" tank was never understood; and he was too ignorant to listen. He already hates the 540, three days in

    13. #62

      EV Ad

      You know, as hard as Buick ran away from it's couch in a boat old man image, this thread makes me think EVs should adopt it.

      "EVs, just like your grandfather's Buick"

    14. #63
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      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Sure an EV is “slightly smoother” than a reasonably good family sedan or near-luxury sedan, but does it really make that much difference in terms of driver fatigue? Ima say no dawg.
      i don't doubt EVs hold the trophy for ultimate silent comfort, but driving fatigue from an average ICE car? mmmm I think you've had a rough day if you're falling asleep at the wheel. I guess I'm not very difficult, but I've never gotten tired of driving an ICE because of their inherent drivetrain vibrations; my fatigue was more due to the fact that I was seated in the same seat for 9 hours with very little movement and a stern focus on the road and traffic. And I can count the number of times that has happened.

      EVs are awesome and I really hope they become our new daily driving standard.
      http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-metric/286588.png
      Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy.

    15. #64
      I’ll own an EV in the not too distant future but I’ll be pretty damn surprised if it’s noticeably less-fatiguing than my current car. I’ve never really thought of fatigue at all with any of my cars, but I’ve also never owned something as interesting as a Lotus.

    16. #65
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      For me the fatigue isnt so much from NVH but from actually driving. Even with basic Auto pilot, highways are relaxing and you dont have to focus on keeping the car straight, braking, or accelerating. Just keep your hand on the wheel and chill.
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    17. #66
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      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      i don't doubt EVs hold the trophy for ultimate silent comfort, but driving fatigue from an average ICE car? mmmm I think you've had a rough day if you're falling asleep at the wheel. I guess I'm not very difficult, but I've never gotten tired of driving an ICE because of their inherent drivetrain vibrations; my fatigue was more due to the fact that I was seated in the same seat for 9 hours with very little movement and a stern focus on the road and traffic. And I can count the number of times that has happened.

      EVs are awesome and I really hope they become our new daily driving standard.
      Agreed. Also EVs don't cancel out tire and wind noise, which I noted wasn't all that well suppressed in the Model 3's I've experienced on the roads here. I actually find that to be more fatiguing than engine noise.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

    18. #67
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      All this talk of noise and vibrations is a little bit of a stretch if you ask me, but it depends what type of car we're comparing against. Don't get me wrong I'm obviously into ev's. I had a prius prime, and two model 3's.

      I'm a current tesla model 3 owner - however, I think I have a buyer so I won't be after the next week.

      I'm also a 2005 lexus GX owner. The GX is an old school 15 year old car. Its built like a tank, quiet at idle and cruising etc. I feel no more fatigue driving that car. In fact, in certain situations of bad weather, I feel less fatigue cause I'm riding up higher than everyone, and being in an SUV is relaxing to me.

      Now was there fatigue in my civic type R? You bet your ass there was... That car stressed me out after having my first model 3. So compared to a PERFORMANCE car that generally rides rough, has manual shifting, etc... yes, tesla has muuuuuuuuuch less fatigue. Compared to a normal, refined, vehicle, not so much. For certain situations, yes - auto pilot on a long highway drive, or even a shorter one in the right environment, very very nice.


      In closing, for what its worth - I'm looking to get into a cheaper ev as I really do love an ev for running around town, commuting to work, etc. Its so nice to just turn on, go, and never pump gas. Hopefully me abandoning tesla doesn't backfire again. I do love elon and the company, but typically dislike the owners, and dislike the extreme lack of personality.
      Last edited by YukonCornelius; 06-16-2020 at 11:08 PM.

    19. #68
      Quote Originally Posted by TDIBUGMAN View Post
      Three weeks ago, we test drove a Model 3 to replace the Si. A move is happening, commutes are getting longer and the 3 was a wonderful place to spend time. The seats were some of the most comfortable I've ever sat in. Currently on our 2nd i3, and had a Prius Plug In before that, and EV ownership (well, leasing-ship) had been nothing short of wonderful.

      A Model 3's operating costs are so low, that it is easily the payment of a Camry - except never going for fuel unless you're on a road trip. The monthly nut is not monetary thing, it's a psychological thing and we'll be over that once the move is done next month.

      We also just leased a new Bolt last Tuesday for my Mom. It, too is a wonderful car - really wonderful for what it cost! At 6'8/340 pounds I've had zero issues with the seats even after a two hour ride last Friday.They seats have a lot of range of adjustment that I think just takes since working out to hit the spot. The i3 goes back in August, so I'm piling up miles on it.

      EV ownership still takes some people to open up their minds. We have a friend insistent 300 miles of range wasn't enough for his daily - so he just got a CPO 540i. The entire concept of leaving home every day with a "full" tank was never understood; and he was too ignorant to listen. He already hates the 540, three days in
      I just leased a Bolt too. And you're right, for the price it drives really nice. Interior is so-so, but I knew that going into it. Only terrible thing is the chrome strip thing on the dash that blinds you when the sun hits it. But for about $200 a month after tax/wear and tear, and state/utility rebates, I'm not complaining!

    20. #69
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      EVs are the best daily vehicles period. But do people actually want EVs or do they want Teslas? Bc the benefits of a Tesla to me essentially are double the benefit of any single EV alone. I was chatting with some car guys today and someone mentioned losing the only key to some german car. The car is stuck on deflated bags in a lot. To get a new a key, it's needs a tow to a dealer an hour away plus the $450 key. If you lose the secondary physical key to your Tesla (phone is primary), it costs $25 for 2 key cards and you can just program it yourself in 30 seconds. Thats Tesla rewriting the ownership experience that a Audi E-Tron prob doesnt have.

      That is the least compelling argument to owning a particular brand of car, unless one is a remarkably inept, incompetent and careless person.
      Quote Originally Posted by 20aeman View Post
      No, the real enthusiast vehicle would be the RX8. It combines V12 Lamborghini gas mileage with Hyundai Genesis 4cyl. performance.

    21. #70
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      Quote Originally Posted by Taco1933 View Post
      I’ll own an EV in the not too distant future but I’ll be pretty damn surprised if it’s noticeably less-fatiguing than my current car. I’ve never really thought of fatigue at all with any of my cars, but I’ve also never owned something as interesting as a Lotus.
      I test drove a Tesla and I couldn't believe how loud my normal car was. Like a stock CX-5. It was like sitting in a quiet room that moved, you only heard road noise for the most part. Unique experience. I'd get one if it works out some day.

    22. #71
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      Nonsense. You may not really notice the engine much on cars like that, but a lot of that is that you've been accustomed to tuning out engine noise from a lifetime of car travel. The first time I got in an EV and turned it on it was just eerie- you don't even realize how much you've gotten accustomed to a certain baseline level of NVH. When it's gone, it's a revelation. I've been some really quiet cars (including a Tacoma and a Tiguan and even quieter cars like an S class) and neither are remotely as quiet as an EV at low speeds. You can't beat total silence by muffling noise. Sure, on the highway the vast majority of the noise is wind/tire noise and the effect isn't that noticeable there. But it's huge at idle and low speeds.

      Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want a world where EVs are the only option, but they are really compelling for a daily commuter car.
      I think we are so accustomed to those sounds that we subconsciously ignore them to the point of not missing them when we drive an electric car and the electric car simply seems "weird". Once you're actually used to the electric car the gasser will then seem noisy and unrefined. The same thing holds true of vintage cars. They would seem fine and relatively quiet if you're used to them, but drive a modern gasser for a week and go back to the vintage car and it will seem like a tin can with a noise generator in it, because it is. That's okay, it's just different.

      Like so many of you for me the ideal would be commuting in an electric car and having a toy for the weekend car.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

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