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Golf R, most overrated "performance" hatch of the decade ?

39K views 361 replies 103 participants last post by  SCHWAB0 
#1 · (Edited)
Is the Golf R overrated ?

Is the Golf R a bit overpriced and overrated ? It was slower than a Jetta https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a29389451/2019-volkswagen-jetta-gli-lightning-lap-2019/ BTW those tires are a no cost option. You can swap the all seasons for those FREE. The clutch can barely handle stock power levels and cars like the STI with a 20 year old plus EJ engine beats it too, never mind the CTR or N. It can barely shake off a GTI but they charge 40 grand for it.

EDIT: I am not sure why some of you are saying the R came with all seasons. I don't think that was the case. It had summer rubber but just not as good as the Hankooks.

Also, obviously a click-bait title :laugh: but in all seriousness, LL times aside it isn't all that much quicker in the straight line either. Check these out, the 5-60 times are about the same, quarter mile and trap speed difference isn't all that.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...56/2019-honda-civic-type-r-vs-2019-vw-golf-r/

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a27103455/2019-volkswagen-jetta-gli-by-the-numbers/
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Is the Golf R one of the most overpriced, overrated cars on the market ? It gets gapped by a Jetta https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a29389451/2019-volkswagen-jetta-gli-lightning-lap-2019/ BTW those tires are a no cost option. You can swap the all seasons for those FREE. The clutch can barely handle stock power levels and a STI with a 20 year old plus EJ engine beats it too, never mind the CTR. It can barely shake off a GTI but they charge 40 grand plus for this thing, lol.
:rolleyes:

A Golf R will retail value much longer than a GTI. And magazine racers a weird.

Edit: I mistyped, I meant 'retain'.
 
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#5 ·
I have never seen a Golf R with all season tires on the dealer parking lot. Perhaps the one they tested somehow came with all seasons, which is no excuse whatsoever. You are paying 40 grand for a "performance" car...It comes the way it comes. No excuses @ this price point. Again, summer tires are a no cost option on the Jetta and come standard on the CTR/STI/RS/N.
 
#54 ·
TireRack lists 3 all seasons as OE: Ventus S1 Noble2, Procontact TX, and Cinturato P7.
I looked into it. Based on the photos from the article, that R (2015) in question was equipped with the 235/35R19 wheel/tire combo, so even wider rubber than the Jetta. OEM tire for that wheel is a Continetal SportContact 5P, a Max Performance Summer tire. Also, it looks like all US R's came with summer tires, maybe the OE A/S listings you are seeing are for Canadian spec cars :confused:.

This is the wheel:

https://www.autorimshop.com/volkswagen-golf-2015-19-oem-wheel-rim.html
 
#55 ·
I looked into it. Based on the photos from the article, that R (2015) in question was equipped with the 235/35R19 wheel/tire combo, so even wider rubber than the Jetta. OEM tire for that wheel is a Continetal SportContact 5P, a Max Performance Summer tire. Also, it looks like all US R's came with summer tires, maybe the OE A/S listings you are seeing are for Canadian spec cars :confused:.

This is the wheel:

https://www.autorimshop.com/volkswagen-golf-2015-19-oem-wheel-rim.html
Cadiz were also available in 18" which came with 225/40-18, but admittedly there was no OE All-Season on tire rack in 19" and I can't say for sure what size the R in the LL article has. If it is indeed 19", yeah, there's no real way that car had all seasons. Still, there's about a dozen other things I'd look at before I'd believe the GLI is faster. :beer:
 
#4 ·
I've said that before that I thought I wanted a Golf R until I finally got real back-to-back seat time with a GTI. The extra power of the R is more or less negated by the extra weight of the AWD system. The best value performance hatch of the decade is probably the Veloster N, which is such a surprise considering how crappy the last generation Veloster was. The ultimate Golf IMO is the now discontinued Rabbit edition, with its only blunder being that it should have come with high performance summer tires.
 
#9 ·
Having owned MK2-MK6 GTIs, R32s and Golf Rs, in stock form and up to 400 wheel horse. I feel the need to chime in. You are partially right. :laugh: Ive been considering a daily driver switch lately so I test drove a brand new manual GTI and a brand new manual Golf R back to back. I was blown away how good the GTI felt. It was lively, had a little wheel spin, wanted to rev, felt light and quick, overall was enjoyable to drive. The Golf R felt lifeless. It was dull. I was completely caught off guard. I was actually kind of sad about it. Yes subtle can be a good thing but not for your "top level" performance car. The GTI wasnt even a performance-pack car it was a zero option S. I need to go drive a Veloster N just to see what all the hype is about. I will say one thing, if you lump the Golf R and GTI into the same "Golf" category (which people loooove to do around here) then its definitely the best because your options are enormous. Its also by far the nicest place to be daily. I dont think its the most overrated but its definitely not the best if "hot" is the part of hot hatch you think is most important
 
#16 ·
Is the Golf R one of the most overpriced, overrated cars on the market ? It gets gapped by a Jetta https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a29389451/2019-volkswagen-jetta-gli-lightning-lap-2019/ BTW those tires are a no cost option. You can swap the all seasons for those FREE. The clutch can barely handle stock power levels and a STI with a 20 year old plus EJ engine beats it too, never mind the CTR. It can barely shake off a GTI but they charge 40 grand plus for this thing, lol.
I always wondered why the GTI came with a trick electronic diff, but the Golf R came with open diffs, not even a simpler mechanical diff.

Why not give it every performance option?
 
#39 ·
None of the transverse AWD cars have it, not even the ttrs.


The VAQ diff is massive and sits where the output for the center driveshaft is in the AWD cars.


They all still have EDL (pretty much any VW with abs since the 80s has) , that combined with th fact that the haldex can basically act as a locked center diff makes for a pretty solid setup.
 
#18 ·
Is the Golf R one of the most overpriced, overrated cars on the market ? It gets gapped by a Jetta https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a29389451/2019-volkswagen-jetta-gli-lightning-lap-2019/ BTW those tires are a no cost option. You can swap the all seasons for those FREE. The clutch can barely handle stock power levels and a STI with a 20 year old plus EJ engine beats it too, never mind the CTR. It can barely shake off a GTI but they charge 40 grand plus for this thing, lol.
Car & Driver disagrees.

https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/golf-r

Car & Driver said:
Overview
The Golf R is the understated and underrated antithesis of its red-hot hatchback rivals such as the Ford Focus RS, Subaru WRX STI, and Honda Civic Type R. Its mixture of performance and practicality is expected, but its seamless blending of those two key attributes is unique. On top of that, the R outclasses everything in the category with the most sophisticated styling inside and out. Its place at the peak of the peerless Volkswagen Golf family has helped it win a spot on our 10Best list. However, the equally lovable and significantly less expensive Golf GTI represents a stronger performance value for those less concerned with maximum thrust. Likewise, the R-rated version lacks the literal and figurative wild side of the hardcore alternatives. Regardless, this sport compact is a dual threat, a winner on both the track and the cul-de-sac.
 
#19 ·
people don't buy cars in real life based on the tiny bubbles that car guys and magazines put cars in. Most people buy SUVs. and a lot of those SUVs are silly fast too.
 
#20 ·
0.1 seconds is hardly gapped on a 3+ minute course. Test the cars back to back with same tires otherwise the video is just clickbait. That said its not secret a GTI with a couple mods is definitely faster than a Golf R in straight line and on a course.
 
#21 ·
Got my mk6 r preowned for 19k with some mods ive managed to gap a gt2 and plenty of soobs and jettas. Yea we’re talking stock golf r for 40k and not modded but all the perks are there. From the dealer its a very tame car for the price i get it. never bought any cars new but the platform is great to work on and cost efficient. Plus, at the end of the day id rather be in a dope lookin vw. not a suburu, veloster, or focus. Just sayin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
#24 ·
Of course you can get it with all-seasons, it’s a practical 4-dr hatchback. At least around here summer tires are a non-starter for many; why wouldn’t VW handicap the car on the track if it means more sales? And most track enthusiasts are going to get rid of OE summers anyway in favor of something <200TW.

As far as the lap time, I think it’s actually pretty amazing that the Golf R is that close with all-seasons. C/D never should’ve tested it that way IMO as it’s a pretty huge asterisk, but there’s probably an easy 5 seconds there with proper tires.
 
#27 ·
I agree, tires are the most important aspect of tracking a car. All seasons are a joke! Wouldn’t be surprised if the test R had an issue that hurt its time as well. It is sooo mich faster than a GLI/GTI in a straight line. You can tune an R and chop super cars all day long. What is overrated about that?
 
#35 ·
This thread is stupid, but I feel compelled to reply anyways, which probably says more about me than the thread... :)

So forgetting track lap times because honestly 99.5% of Golf/Jetta drivers will never care and I'm going to use the Canadian pricing levels because that's what I'm familiar with. Thus follows my thoughts on the GLI vs GTI vs R.

GLI (CAD 33K) - tons of car for the money, looks decent, big trunk. If you want a sedan I think it's a solid choice. My biggest beef with it, not having driven it, is the front seats. They are less sporty, less bolstered, than the seats we get in top trim regular Golfs in Canada. There seems to be zero side support in them and combined with the leather surfaces I'm thinking they would be a huge negative. My old Alltrack had way nicer, more supportive seats than the GLI does.

GTI (CAD 36K) - super fun, I loved driving the MK7 GTI, it definately has a more playful feel than the R does. The one I drove was on HP all seasons which had it's up and downs. The downs was that it would spin it's front tires at WOT up to about 60kph. The ups was that the back end would step out when flung into turns. Other reviews says the car understeers way too much (Savagegeese), perhaps that's the behaviour you get with summer tires? IMO you can't go wrong with a GTI, but I think in Canada the base trim at 30K is the one to buy, the Autobahn is too close in price to the R.

R (CAD 42K) - fast, no drama, other than the speed. I don't remember the GTI I drove to be anywhere near as fast as the R I own, maybe because of traction issues? The R just does everything well, maybe too well, but that excellence is what makes it a great everyday driver. I think my favorite thing about the R is the short gearing, driving it with gusto means you are ripping through the gears which isn't an experience many new cars offer. My only real beef with the R is the 19" wheels which IMO are 1" too big. I'm constantly on guard for potholes and you really notice the lack of air volume and high pressure in the ride. I feel compelled to have THREE sets of wheels and tires for the R, 19 with summers for summer, 18 with HP all seasons for shoulder season and road trips and 17 for winter.

For me R vs GTI basically came down to the AWD for winter driving. I know FWD with good winter tires is absolutely fine for winter driving, that's what I drove in winters for over 20 years. The main difference between FWD and AWD in winter for me is FUN, FWD with electronic nannies just isn't fun on snow at all for me. I wanted a car that's fun in the winter and the AWD R beats the FWD GTI hands down in that regard.
 
#36 ·
If the prices are that close in Canada, it’d be a pretty tough call. Down here, I think I could get a GTI SE or GLI Autobahn for about $10k less than a R. I think for a lot of people a GTI is 90% of a R at 75% of the cost. But, obviously, we aren’t too worried about snow.
 
#37 · (Edited)
V6 and Turbo 4 Mustangs and Camaros with their respective "handling" or "performance" packs run circles around all of these economy cars in terms of driving dynamics and track lap times at $10k less so why are any of you even arguing hot hatch vs hot hatch lol.

EDIT: $36k STICKER gets you

EcoBoost 2.3L with upgraded 330hp/350tq
Handling pack with 3.55 torsen, mag ride, 265 width pirelli's on 19" wheels all the way around
9 Speaker stereo
Power seat
Dual zone climate
Quad tip exhaust with different modes
SYNC 3
etc etc.
 
#38 · (Edited)
But it is a crappy Ford with no resale value and will break before the warranty expires... And no V6 and 4pot is beating an R, STI, RS or Veloster in terms of handling.
 
#48 ·
I don't buy cars based on spec sheets or lap times. Looks, driving experience, and roominess are what I'd be considering for a sporty car. I believe the jetta has more rear room than a mkvii golf. If I needed the space, that's probably what I'd buy---i wouldn't consider any golf at that point. If rear seat room isn't a priority, the jetta gli is pretty ugly in stock form. I like the gti/r much more and that's what I'd be looking for.

Between the gti and r, it would come down to what would drive better to me and if I thought the drive is worth the cost. Perhaps if I was really stuck between the two, I might also look into what tunes would do for either car. Not having driven any mkvii, it's all but impossible for me to provide an opinion of whether the r is worth the cost.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 
#50 ·
Shouldn't the Veloster N be compared to the GTI and WRX, rather than the R:. and STi?


The GLI is cheap (mine was 22.5 OTD) but it's cheap for a reason. There are a few small flaws (like the seats that are at best fair, the moronic Electronic brake, weakish AC) but it's manifest flaw is the sluggish nature of the engine under 2100rpm, which combined with the ultra tall, widely spaced gearing makes commuting a chore. I expected better from a brand new car.
 
#52 ·
To me, they are sort of aimed at different buyers and needs. If you're looking for the ultimate 'hot-hatch', the formula for these cars has always been front-wheel drive with a 'sporting' vs. 'luxury' focus. Yes the Golf R is both hot and a hatch, but doesn't fit the true original mould of the hot-hatch (mk1 GTI, 205 GTI, Xr3 etc)

The GTI is the back-road burner of the Golf range, (with the front diff) and I'd only take a Golf R over a GTI if I lived somewhere, where I needed AWD and used the car as a commuting appliance too (spec'd with DSG).

For any and every other circumstances, I'd take a GTI stick over the Golf R. I once heard someone describe the Golf R as a 'mini GT-R', and I think that's a more fitting description for the car. First time I drove my mk7 GTI with the performance pack on a twisty back road, I was literally speechless at the levels of grip and it's ability to slice through the curves without any fuss, and pull out of tight apexes.

I was leading a convoy of very capable cars (E92 M3, S2000, RX7) and I put a substantial gap on the following cars when the road got really tight. Once you've demolished a back-road, you have a comfortable and nice place to sit for your drive back home.

People love to bash the GTI, but if you get the opportunity to drive one for what they're intended for, it's hard to come away unimpressed by its overall talents.
 
#53 ·
the LSD was the biggest upgrade for the GTI imo after the huge upgrade that was the mkv. Main thing is if you're gonna up the boost you want the R to put the power down, otherwise stock power most average buyers will be fine with the GTi hence the bang for the buck argument (i don't think acura or audi products have the same price differential when adding awd, granted the R is indeed a different turbo
 
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