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    1. #76
      Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      This one is getting ready to start construction:



      So of course, there's this:

      https://www.blockthetrack.org/
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

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    3. #77
      Learning New Things Every Day. GreenandChrome's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      This one is getting ready to start construction:



      So of course, there's this:

      https://www.blockthetrack.org/
      They should add some MTB loops, a bike oval, and a paved pedestrian loop. multi-function and anyone can enjoy.
      "Excluding the possibility that a female Scandinavian Olympian was running around outside our house last night, what else might be a possibility?"
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    4. #78
      Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Egz View Post
      Don't forget about people complaining about street racing at night on roads near where a drag strip used to exist.
      This. It actually comes up once in a while in MI.

      I do laugh though. You live in MI. Where cars come from. And you are mad because people like to play with cars? Find a new state, honey. This is car country.

      That Nashville track looks sweet. But Grattan's straight is longer. LOL Grattan is our little MI secret. If you can handle it, you can handle anything.
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    5. #79
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      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      They should add some MTB loops, a bike oval, and a paved pedestrian loop. multi-function and anyone can enjoy.
      That's actually not a bad idea. But totally silly to be upset about this. The back straight is literally adjacent to what appears to be a major divided highway. As if there was peace and quiet there before

    6. #80
      Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      That's actually not a bad idea. But totally silly to be upset about this. The back straight is literally adjacent to what appears to be a major divided highway. As if there was peace and quiet there before

      but...but...but... revving engines and squealing tires! Oh MY!
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

    7. #81
      How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      This one is getting ready to start construction:



      So of course, there's this:

      https://www.blockthetrack.org/
      I like that.

      Oh, and the group against it can get bent.
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    8. #82
      Member chois's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      Older ones kinda do, so vintage cars tend to not be able to be easily muffled without horrible, ungainly attachments like posted earlier in the thread. Again, the problem is NOT the cars, but the idiots who can't be convinced that they are idiots.

      As for developing cars that are quieter, it'd be cheaper just to pay the idiots to move somewhere else...
      I don't agree at all. Yes they have been developed to this point with little consideration to sound control beyond pointing the exhuast out the side of the car where they are not measuring sound, but there is no reason a quieter exhaust could not be installed.
      The P cars are a bit of an exception because the engine is sitting where you would normally have a bunch of space to design in a muffling system.
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    9. #83
      I'm just here to post more photos of Laguna Seca exhausts because I find them kinda hilarious.






    10. #84
      Member mach250's Avatar
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      People that move close to a race track and then complain about noise are equally as bad as people that move to a rural area and then complain about the smell of cow **** from the farm down the road.
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    11. #85
      Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by chois View Post
      I don't agree at all. Yes they have been developed to this point with little consideration to sound control beyond pointing the exhuast out the side of the car where they are not measuring sound, but there is no reason a quieter exhaust could not be installed.
      The P cars are a bit of an exception because the engine is sitting where you would normally have a bunch of space to design in a muffling system.
      It's clear you have never worked with older race cars. P cars are NOT the exception as formula cars and sports racers are in the same boat. Where you gonna put enough mufflers to get the dB down to 75 on this effectively:



      We tried on and old Formula Libre with a rotary engine using flowmasters and supertrapps and all it did was blow the supertrapp vanes off the end of the muffler the first downshift. There was no room after the engine to put the damn things on anyhow and it looked like that stupid P car muffler pictured before. Hanging off the ass of a vintage formula car with very little to support it.



      These are trying and they don't quite get there:





      again, why should they have to do all that to try to slightly pacify idiots that aren't going to be satisfied ANYHOW?
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

    12. #86
      How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post

      again, why should they have to do all that to try to slightly pacify idiots that aren't going to be satisfied ANYHOW?
      You can make the cars quiet, but then they'll complain of the smells and other noises, like tires.

      In the end the people just want to be upset about something, and the racetrack is that something.
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    13. #87
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      You can make the cars quiet, but then they'll complain of the smells and other noises, like tires.

      In the end the people just want to be upset about something, and the racetrack is that something.

      Exactly.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

    14. #88
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      the best thing you can do to keep your race track alive, is to keep it profitable.

      money talks, bull**** walks.
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      Sounds great. Maybe I'm just a fascist and didn't know it.. I don't know if I even care anymore.

    15. #89
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      Quote Originally Posted by Egz View Post
      Don't forget about people complaining about street racing at night on roads near where a drag strip used to exist.
      Interesting take.
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    16. #90
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      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post

      again, why should they have to do all that to try to slightly pacify idiots that aren't going to be satisfied ANYHOW?
      Because we live in a society where big decisions like race tracks aren't made unilaterally. People here bitch and whine about everything under the sun that gets in the way of their driving fun, but if anyone does the same in opposition.... "what gives them the RIGHT???"

      If people want to save their racetracks.... you get more bees with honey than vinegar. Writing off people opposed to race tracks as unreasonable whiners will only accelerate the demise of said race tracks.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

    17. #91
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      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Because we live in a society where big decisions like race tracks aren't made unilaterally.
      WTF are you on about? We're talking in this thread about racetracks primarily that have been there longer than the people have. If you move into an area where there's an existing disturbance (racetrack, airport, concert venue), then complain about that disturbance, it isn't because a decision was made unilaterally on your behalf. So yeah, I'm gonna write off a person who does that as an idiot because they are. And so is the realtor who sold them on the property without disclosing that pre-existing disturbance.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

    18. #92
      Learning New Things Every Day. GreenandChrome's Avatar
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      There are 2 tracks in Eastern Washington that have a strange history.

      Yakima Speedway, which the owner has been threatening to sell off for years, and actually racing has stopped there. Turns out it's an environmental nightmare to redevelop it.

      Track two is Tri-City Raceway. It's an awesome track, I don't think there's a driver who doesn't love it. 15 years or so ago the owner got fed up with fighting the encroaching neighborhoods. Closed down. Sold off the grandstands, lights, everything. It is still there, sitting vacant. Turns out earlier this year a couple drivers actually went back on the track and tested there.

      Footage exists on YouTube for Tri-City. FB page w/ old photo of track: https://www.facebook.com/redmountaineventcenter/
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    19. #93
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      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      WTF are you on about? We're talking in this thread about racetracks primarily that have been there longer than the people have. If you move into an area where there's an existing disturbance (racetrack, airport, concert venue), then complain about that disturbance, it isn't because a decision was made unilaterally on your behalf. So yeah, I'm gonna write off a person who does that as an idiot because they are. And so is the realtor who sold them on the property without disclosing that pre-existing disturbance.
      Problem is, the world isn't static. If there's a horde of them hiring lawyers and talking to politicians and generally building clout, it doesn't matter a whole lot if they're ignoring precedent or can't comprehend a disclosure--they can and have shut tracks down.

    20. #94
      Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by TequilaMockingbird View Post
      I'm just here to post more photos of Laguna Seca exhausts because I find them kinda hilarious.

      That looks like my friend to the left of that GT3. Lolz.
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    21. #95
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      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Because we live in a society where big decisions like race tracks aren't made unilaterally. People here bitch and whine about everything under the sun that gets in the way of their driving fun, but if anyone does the same in opposition.... "what gives them the RIGHT???"

      If people want to save their racetracks.... you get more bees with honey than vinegar. Writing off people opposed to race tracks as unreasonable whiners will only accelerate the demise of said race tracks.
      The key issue is that in some of these newer neighborhoods where the complaints come from, it usually comes from a very small handful of people vs the thousands that moved there yet that small handful had the ability to unite, escalate, write their rep, made their small voices heard and got local politics involved.

      Their decision to complain was also made unilaterally, with no local jurisdiction vote in most cases. And in a lot of cases the complaint came from 1 person. How is that the right way to run society?

      https://www.wmar2news.com/news/regio...city-officials

      I used to live near there, the article tells a familiar story. The key takeaway is "residents(s)". Maybe 5 people wanting to stop the enjoyment that many thousands get, and that many hundreds make their living off of.
      Last edited by tbvvw; 09-17-2020 at 07:48 AM.

    22. #96
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      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      WTF are you on about? We're talking in this thread about racetracks primarily that have been there longer than the people have. If you move into an area where there's an existing disturbance (racetrack, airport, concert venue), then complain about that disturbance, it isn't because a decision was made unilaterally on your behalf. So yeah, I'm gonna write off a person who does that as an idiot because they are. And so is the realtor who sold them on the property without disclosing that pre-existing disturbance.
      See my MPP article in the post above, I'm sure you are aware that the same stuff has been going on there as well. Crazy how things are Ok for 40+ years, some folks move in and complain and they turn the apple cart over for thousands of people. Never mind the income generation for the local economy, let me complain about DMB for 2 hours from a mile away keeping me from sleeping at 8PM on a Sat night.
      Last edited by tbvvw; 09-17-2020 at 07:51 AM.

    23. #97
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      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      It's clear you have never worked with older race cars. P cars are NOT the exception as formula cars and sports racers are in the same boat. Where you gonna put enough mufflers to get the dB down to 75 on this effectively:

      again, why should they have to do all that to try to slightly pacify idiots that aren't going to be satisfied ANYHOW?
      Sorry - didn't know I was conversing with a "race car" snob.

      First off, 75 is considerably lower than most street car requirements in the US, so maybe unlikely that this would be where the bar is set.

      Also, the vast majority of track cars and race cars are production based and absolutely can accommodate improved muffling. My car meets SCCA Club Racing requirements now with no muffler at all, and could easily add up to 3 within the confines of my chassis.

      Vintage purpose built race cars will obviously have the greatest challenge, and those would likely need to be run at tracks with higher noise ratings or on one of the few "unmuffled" days that the strict tracks have available.
      New purpose built race cars are built to a rule set, and if there is a rule that says 93dB max they will design and package a system into the car that delivers that.

      There is no real reason beyond "because racecar" that they NEED to be loud, but I admit that I like it better that way...
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    24. #98
      Learning New Things Every Day. GreenandChrome's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by chois View Post
      Sorry - didn't know I was conversing with a "race car" snob.

      First off, 75 is considerably lower than most street car requirements in the US, so maybe unlikely that this would be where the bar is set.

      Also, the vast majority of track cars and race cars are production based and absolutely can accommodate improved muffling. My car meets SCCA Club Racing requirements now with no muffler at all, and could easily add up to 3 within the confines of my chassis.

      Vintage purpose built race cars will obviously have the greatest challenge, and those would likely need to be run at tracks with higher noise ratings or on one of the few "unmuffled" days that the strict tracks have available.
      New purpose built race cars are built to a rule set, and if there is a rule that says 93dB max they will design and package a system into the car that delivers that.

      There is no real reason beyond "because racecar" that they NEED to be loud, but I admit that I like it better that way...
      As someone who has built purpose-built racecars for a track with a noise limit, it's bulls**t. Early in the season the track hires a guy with a sound meter who stands outside the track at turn one. Depending on how you drive your car you can get all sorts of readings. Our track, iirc, was limited to 95dba at 75 feet. I saw the list of cars that exceeded that number. 12 out of 15 cars. The top car had a reading of 113dba. And over the season, our cars weren't the loudest - Winston West, Super Mods, Sprint Cars... all louder than us.

      We raced at Portland w/ the Indycars one year (support series race). Officials came to the teams telling everyone they needed to lower their dba, everyone was over the limit. They shut up when the Indycars went around the track. They were hitting about 120dba, iirc, and a lot louder than us.

      And if you think there's no real reason for why an exhaust has to be loud on a racecar... it's clearly just a hobby for you. Drivers wish they weren't so loud, but until it is absolutely mandated by the rules, it won't happen. My b-i-l's ears would ring for two days after a long race. And he had custom-molded earpieces, headsock, and closed-face helmet.

      My b-i-l was given a tour of a long-time NASCAR race team that's now heavily affiliated with another long-time race team. They had racks of exhaust pipes, labeled for each track. So even open exhaust can be fine tuned.
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    25. #99
      Member chois's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      As someone who has built purpose-built racecars for a track with a noise limit, it's bulls**t. Early in the season the track hires a guy with a sound meter who stands outside the track at turn one. Depending on how you drive your car you can get all sorts of readings. Our track, iirc, was limited to 95dba at 75 feet. I saw the list of cars that exceeded that number. 12 out of 15 cars. The top car had a reading of 113dba. And over the season, our cars weren't the loudest - Winston West, Super Mods, Sprint Cars... all louder than us.

      We raced at Portland w/ the Indycars one year (support series race). Officials came to the teams telling everyone they needed to lower their dba, everyone was over the limit. They shut up when the Indycars went around the track. They were hitting about 120dba, iirc, and a lot louder than us.

      And if you think there's no real reason for why an exhaust has to be loud on a racecar... it's clearly just a hobby for you. Drivers wish they weren't so loud, but until it is absolutely mandated by the rules, it won't happen. My b-i-l's ears would ring for two days after a long race. And he had custom-molded earpieces, headsock, and closed-face helmet.

      My b-i-l was given a tour of a long-time NASCAR race team that's now heavily affiliated with another long-time race team. They had racks of exhaust pipes, labeled for each track. So even open exhaust can be fine tuned.
      You totally missed my point. IF the rules mandate it, it simply becomes part of the competitive development. They don't HAVE to be loud, but sanctioning bodies have chosen not to make them quiet.

      I've been around race cars since I could walk. I've been to races at NASTYCAR super speedways, long gone Riverside, in the garages on Gasoline Alley on race day as the Gnassi crew was warming up the cars. I've had a custom molded ear bud go missing, run one 20m session without ear protection and had my ears ring for a week. I get it. In detail.

      And of course racing is a hobby for me - I have a job, to pay for my racing hobby. That doesn't change that loud race cars are a choice, and like concussions in sports you cannot leave that choice up to racers, 'cause racers gonna race...

      The context this thread started under was tracks being closed, and no longer available for hobbyists, track day bros, club racers and attackers of time to pursue their hobbies or livelihoods. The few weekends a year that a track hosts a proper pro series the positive economic impact often creates enough good will that sound restrictions are different, but that won't happen for club races, track days or vintage racers.
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    26. #100
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      Quote Originally Posted by chois View Post
      IF the rules mandate it, it simply becomes part of the competitive development.
      Yup. Nobody wants to design around an inlet restrictor either, but plenty of teams do successfully. GreenandChrome listed some really annoying problems, but I think that adds to what I was saying about having some standardized piping. "Here you go teams, if you want to race in the 2025 WhateverCup, from the turbo or header back you must use a part that meets this ISO standard."

      And it actually poses an interesting efficiency problem in the context of turbocharged cars. Every single sound at WOT that comes out of that exhaust pipe is energy which the turbine isn't putting back into the system. Get better at that and we can make better street cars too.

      Thinking about it more, most sanctioning bodies are interested in attracting teams and spectators. Loud pipes appeal to both of those audiences. Keeping individual tracks in business isn't really their goal.

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