New Nissan Z Proto looks to the future, inspired by its past - Page 9
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    1. #201
      Member vb22's Avatar
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      Nissan Z Proto Will Reach Production Pretty Much Unchanged, Says Nissan Executive

      https://www.400zclub.com/forum/threa...executive.125/

      The last thing most people would want to do on a cold and rainy October morning is to rise early and attend a car meet. Those who weathered the drizzle on Sunday's Daikanyama Tsutaya Bookstore Morning Cruise in Shibuya-ku, Tokyo, however, were rewarded not only with a glimpse of Nissan's concept for the next-generation Z sports car, the Z Proto, but a visit by Nissan executives who surprised the crowd by announcing the Z Proto will reach production almost unchanged.

      "It will come out in this form," declared Nissan's Chief Product Specialist, Hiroshi Tamura, as transcribed by Best Car. Tamura reportedly added that in keeping with the Z's affordable roots, the next Z will be sold at a "buyable price [sic]."

      When contacted to have the executives' statements corroborated, a Nissan spokesperson contrasted their higher-ups, stating "it's too hasty to say the design is settled at this point."

      Nissan's executives and PR folks, however, have been of two minds on the Z for years. Back in January 2018, a product planning lead confirmed the Z was in the oven, only for PR to be less committed. Later that same year, when Nissan's global design head Alfonso Albaisa spoke about working on the Z, company mouthpieces again wouldn't acknowledge such a car was in development.

      Given that none of the above were originally confirmed bits, we can put little stock behind the comments (or lack thereof), but it's safe to say that the future looks bright if the design, in fact, remains the same as in the Proto.

      The 400Z, as some speculatively call it, will apparently bookend Nissan's "A-to-Z" brand revival, which is expected to proceed alphabetically—the Ariya up front, the Z bringing up the rear. That will apparently mean launch as far out as 2023, by which time we hopefully won't be second-guessing the Z Proto's gaping grille.

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    3. #202
      Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      That all sounds pretty good.

      I don't see, with my layman's perspective, anything on the prototype that couldn't make production. The proportions are from a production car, so we know there's enough room for crash structures, components, airbags and all of that, plus the hardware isn't overly exotic, so the design is "there" as far as I can tell. Of course materials and some details will change for various reasons, but I doubt that much will be different on the production car - except for the interior materials of course.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    4. #203
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      Nissan Z Proto appears at morning cruise event in Tokyo


    5. #204
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      https://www.400zclub.com/forum/threa...ge-2#post-3091

      ■ Estimated price of the new Fairlady Z
      ● Base grade (304ps) /4.5 million yen
      ● Version S (304ps) / 5 million yen
      ● Version T (304ps) / 5 million yen
      ● Version ST (405ps) / 6 million yen
      ● NISMO (405) ~ 450ps) / 7 million yen

    6. #205
      Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      So that pretty much confirms a turbo 4 option. $4.5mil Yen is about $56k Canadian (~$45k US I guess) if you are talking purely currency.

      I hate to say it, but even if the base model is closer to $40k than 50, it is still lots of money IMO. I assume they won't be able to touch the value of the current 370.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
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    7. #206
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      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      So that pretty much confirms a turbo 4 option.
      No. Nissan doesn't have any 300HP 4 bangers. The V6TT in the Q50 is available with 300 or 400HP.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

    8. #207
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      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      No. Nissan doesn't have any 300HP 4 bangers. The V6TT in the Q50 is available with 300 or 400HP.
      Not Nissan, but Renault/Alpine use a couple different massaged-over MR engines of varying displacements (1.6L and 1.8L) the A110 and the hottest of the Clio hot hatches that put out 300hp, five or take.

    9. #208
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      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      No. Nissan doesn't have any 300HP 4 bangers. The V6TT in the Q50 is available with 300 or 400HP.
      Even better, although I am sure they would borrow a turbo 4 from elsewhere in the corp.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    10. #209
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      Quote Originally Posted by DrivinAW8 View Post
      Not Nissan, but Renault/Alpine use a couple different massaged-over MR engines of varying displacements (1.6L and 1.8L) the A110 and the hottest of the Clio hot hatches that put out 300hp, five or take.
      Fair enough but I don't see that happening here

      Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

    11. #210
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      ^Me either, so it’s a theoretical, and agree with your assessment. VR30DETT in 300hp guise for the Base, S, and T trims, and 400hp guise for the ST and Nismo (plus some extra for the latter).


      I would personally hope that if the same basic trim levels come to the US market that one of them offers 6MT and 300hp along with bigger brakes, stickier tires, better suspension, and a limited slip. Maybe the middle of the pack example.. the ‘T’ trim for $49,900???

    12. #211
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      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      Even better, although I am sure they would borrow a turbo 4 from elsewhere in the corp.
      Why would Nissan do that when they have a history of using 300HP and 400HP versions of the same 3.0L V6?

    13. #212
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      This will be V6 only-as mentioned will be carryovers from the Q60 with a better sounding exhaust.

    14. #213
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      Quote Originally Posted by DrivinAW8 View Post
      ^Me either, so it’s a theoretical, and agree with your assessment. VR30DETT in 300hp guise for the Base, S, and T trims, and 400hp guise for the ST and Nismo (plus some extra for the latter).


      I would personally hope that if the same basic trim levels come to the US market that one of them offers 6MT and 300hp along with bigger brakes, stickier tires, better suspension, and a limited slip. Maybe the middle of the pack example.. the ‘T’ trim for $49,900???
      I think/hope the T trim will be cheaper than that. Current Sport Touring is 40k... 45k sounds better

      I imagine dealers are going to **** it up with markups anyway

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      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

    15. #214
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      I literally do not understand why volume automakers tolerate their independent dealers charging insane markups on their passion project models.

      Nissan does not need to build the new Z. They’re doing it for brand image and passion. Still, I’m sure they’d like to sell a certain amount, if not wildly exceed sales expectations (depending on profit per unit)... so why let some shiddy dealers risk those early adopter sales and let the word get out to the enthusiast community-at-large about ridiculous ADMs?

      People who aren’t die-hard Z fans or stupid with their money will walk. Not a good product rollout strategy.

    16. #215
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      To a degree, once the dealers get delivery of the cars they're no longer the manufacturer's problem. Plus if there is high demand, Nissan will have dealers by the balls to get allocations, and will be able to move Zs regardless. Enthusiasts have a short attention span these days so if there are markups they won't last long anyway.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

    17. #216
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      Quote Originally Posted by DrivinAW8 View Post
      I literally do not understand why volume automakers tolerate their independent dealers charging insane markups on their passion project models.

      Nissan does not need to build the new Z. They’re doing it for brand image and passion. Still, I’m sure they’d like to sell a certain amount, if not wildly exceed sales expectations (depending on profit per unit)... so why let some shiddy dealers risk those early adopter sales and let the word get out to the enthusiast community-at-large about ridiculous ADMs?

      People who aren’t die-hard Z fans or stupid with their money will walk. Not a good product rollout strategy.
      The manufacturers can't do anything about it. The dealers are independent and buy the cars from the factory and the latter no longer has any stake in the sale of those cars. That's a major oversimplification, but the point being the two are separate entities.
      "First, I'm going to go down on you real slow and make you happy. Then I'm going climb up and fvck you hard." - Gas Prices

    18. #217
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      Quote Originally Posted by Seabird View Post
      The manufacturers can't do anything about it. The dealers are independent and buy the cars from the factory and the latter no longer has any stake in the sale of those cars. That's a major oversimplification, but the point being the two are separate entities.
      I wouldn't go that far. They're def codependent and a bad dealership experience has cascading effects on the manufacturer. Like part of why Nissan is in trouble is because of its dealership experience.

      But the Z is such a small piece of the pie that if there's some price gouging or w/e corporate will probably look the other way. Corporate doesn't have to put up cash to move metal (another instance of this codependence), dealers sell quickly + profitably, idiot customers get their "first Z!" IG/YT clout. In 2-3 years when Nissan corporate is putting money on the hood to move these and cutting back production this will all be a distant memory.
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      I spent my entire season budget during the off-season on go fast parts, so now I'm wishing I hadn't and had saved a little so I could buy a sim rig.

    19. #218
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      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      To a degree, once the dealers get delivery of the cars they're no longer the manufacturer's problem. Plus if there is high demand, Nissan will have dealers by the balls to get allocations, and will be able to move Zs regardless. Enthusiasts have a short attention span these days so if there are markups they won't last long anyway.
      Aren't CTRs still getting marked up? Those have been on sale a long time now.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    20. #219
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      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      I wouldn't go that far. They're def codependent and a bad dealership experience has cascading effects on the manufacturer. Like part of why Nissan is in trouble is because of its dealership experience.

      But the Z is such a small piece of the pie that if there's some price gouging or w/e corporate will probably look the other way. Corporate doesn't have to put up cash to move metal (another instance of this codependence), dealers sell quickly + profitably, idiot customers get their "first Z!" IG/YT clout. In 2-3 years when Nissan corporate is putting money on the hood to move these and cutting back production this will all be a distant memory.
      The reality is that the manufacturer doesn't have a lot of levers other than allocation and finance. When I was at Toyota/Lexus Canada, if a dealership had a persistent reputation problem and would not work to improve it, we would offer less favourable allocation mixes or adjust feedback based incentive programs, but that was about all we could do. The dealership lobby is strong and you could not, for example, punish a poorly performing dealership by not letting them run the Red Tag Day promotions. It's an incestuous and codependent industry.

    21. #220
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      Quote Originally Posted by unhappymeal View Post
      The reality is that the manufacturer doesn't have a lot of levers other than allocation and finance. When I was at Toyota/Lexus Canada, if a dealership had a persistent reputation problem and would not work to improve it, we would offer less favourable allocation mixes or adjust feedback based incentive programs, but that was about all we could do. The dealership lobby is strong and you could not, for example, punish a poorly performing dealership by not letting them run the Red Tag Day promotions. It's an incestuous and codependent industry.
      ^^^This is what I was getting at. Dealers and manufacturers are B2B and getting at odds is in neither one’s favor, but neither do they have authority over the other, which seemed to be the implication of the person asking why the automakers “tolerate” such behavior.
      "First, I'm going to go down on you real slow and make you happy. Then I'm going climb up and fvck you hard." - Gas Prices

    22. #221
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      Quote Originally Posted by Seabird View Post
      The manufacturers can't do anything about it.
      Not entirely true. Ford was able maintain MSRP on the Ford GT. But that kind of special program is probably too difficult to implement on a higher volume product like the Z.

    23. #222
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      Quote Originally Posted by Canaletto View Post
      Not entirely true. Ford was able maintain MSRP on the Ford GT. But that kind of special program is probably too difficult to implement on a higher volume product like the Z.
      Keep it apples apples to apples. Whenever a new Mustang, or a hot variant of one comes out, Ford dealers don’t hesitate to mark them up when they can get away with it. Agreements over allocations and apportionment of super low volume products isn’t the same.
      "First, I'm going to go down on you real slow and make you happy. Then I'm going climb up and fvck you hard." - Gas Prices

    24. #223
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      Quote Originally Posted by DrivinAW8 View Post
      I literally do not understand why volume automakers tolerate their independent dealers charging insane markups on their passion project models.
      As noted, there isn't much the manufacturer can do, unless (I'm would guess) the dealer is doing something illegal. I also think that there are some benefits to the dealer for the insane markups. For the most part, the types of vehicles that have a large markup, particularly among volume brands, are low volume cars that bring a lot of attention to the brand. So, just thinking logically, if I sell Nissans and something hot comes out, I'm going to want to capitalize on this for as long as I can. I also realize that for the first, what, 6-8 months, I may only get 3-4 cars with a limited selection of features. So, I'm going to want to charge more obviously to maximize profit, but also keep the car in the showrooms for longer so people stop in. As a buyer, I want to see the car before I buy it. And if I have to wait a year before I can even see one in person, that's at least 12 months before the dealer potentially has my money.

      I'm sure there are exceptions here where people come in and order a car before it's even available and still get upcharged to be the first to own it. But I also remember hearing stories on here of dealers holding on to a sold car for showroom traffic purposes. Perhaps in those cases there is no upcharge. But cars with buzz create traffic. That buzz will only last so long however.

    25. #224
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      Quote Originally Posted by Seabird View Post
      ^^^This is what I was getting at. Dealers and manufacturers are B2B and getting at odds is in neither one’s favor, but neither do they have authority over the other, which seemed to be the implication of the person asking why the automakers “tolerate” such behavior.
      Yep. On top of that, because each dealership is an independent business, the manufacturers always have to contemplate antitrust laws in whatever they do. Could you design a way such that your "voluntary" incentive programs punish dealerships who mark-up cars? Probably. Would a manufacturer want to risk spending tens of millions in court given what the FTC and the Competition Bureau of Canada has already said about MSRP over a few hundred of thousand cars? Ehhh...
      Last edited by unhappymeal; 10-19-2020 at 10:33 AM.

    26. #225
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      Quote Originally Posted by DrivinAW8 View Post
      I literally do not understand why volume automakers tolerate their independent dealers charging insane markups on their passion project models.

      Nissan does not need to build the new Z. They’re doing it for brand image and passion. Still, I’m sure they’d like to sell a certain amount, if not wildly exceed sales expectations (depending on profit per unit)... so why let some shiddy dealers risk those early adopter sales and let the word get out to the enthusiast community-at-large about ridiculous ADMs?

      People who aren’t die-hard Z fans or stupid with their money will walk. Not a good product rollout strategy.
      I think everyone who wants a new Z will get one, regardless of markups. Having one at MSRP isn't going to convert a potential Rogue or Altima customer over, because it's such a specific niche customer in the market for a 2 seater coupe these days.

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