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    1. #151
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      Quote Originally Posted by ghost03 View Post
      Uh, not so sure about that. Increasing the output of an engine increases heat produced--common flaw or not, the thermostat is a central and integral part of the cooling system, which has additional demand on it due to the tune. Indeed, it's reasonable to assume anything that would cause a coolant leak could be influenced by the increased cooling demands of the tune.

      I'm sorry your car is having trouble, but I do believe the dealer is right to deny warranty work on a coolant leak on any tuned car.
      If your thermostat fails due to excess heat, you would have bigger issues (head gasket, etc). The thermostat is just a spring. It opens at a certain temperature. The stock cooling system is probably more than capable of handling a Stage 1 tune with no other hardware so I would doubt there's really any excess heat (again, if there was excess heat from a tune that the cooling system couldn't handle, you're going to have much bigger problems than a thermostat).
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    3. #152
      Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Raguvian View Post
      The thermostat is just a spring. It opens at a certain temperature.
      Is be surprised if the tstat on that engine wasn't a "smart" actuator and possibly even built into part of the water pump.
      Not that that takes away anything else from what you wrote... But it's unlikely to be a simple thermostat

      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      Perhaps, but the other way of looking at it is whether the tune pushed it outside of is intended operating range.
      If it's a smart actuator - do we know the tune didn't explicit modify it's behavior?

      Again, not familiar with the specifics of this engine or the apr tune, but none of this is outside the realm of possibility...

      But I'm just here for the party
      Last edited by ValveCoverGasket; 10-13-2020 at 08:12 PM.

    4. #153
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      Quote Originally Posted by Raguvian View Post

      The thermostat is just a spring. It opens at a certain temperature.

      if there was excess heat from a tune






    5. #154
      Member SoTxBill's Avatar
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      The thermostat is only a spring?????


      What happened to the wax which.... is expanding against the spring force... that actually opens the thermostat... The spring only closes it.

    6. #155
      Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      Turn of Events

      They can't find a coolant leak after "extensive" testing.

      I had a coolant warning in ~July. I added some Audi-OEM coolant and 50% distilled water to the "medium" tick mark level.

      Now I'm getting the coolant warning again in October after driving about 800 miles per month and the coolant is slightly below the minimum level.

      I have heard that these engines all burn a little bit of coolant. But this seems excessive. They want to let the vehicle settle over night.

      Maybe the head gasket is shot? If so, that's a pay out of pocket repair. I will give you that.
      Last edited by SchnellFowVay; 10-13-2020 at 09:20 PM.
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    7. #156
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      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      Turn of Events

      They can't find a coolant leak after "extensive" testing.

      I had a coolant warning in ~July. I added some Audi-OEM coolant and 50% distilled water to the "medium" tick mark level.

      Now I'm getting the coolant warning again in October after driving about 800 miles per month and the coolant is slightly below the minimum level.

      I have heard that these engines all burn a little bit of coolant. But this seems excessive. They want to let the vehicle settle over night.

      Maybe the head gasket is shot? If so, that's a pay out of pocket repair. I will give you that.
      I dont buy it. I've had two MK7 GTIs (very similar engines to the one in your S3). Both tuned and never had low coolant warnings.
      Current: 2010 W204 C63
      Past: 2x MK7 Golf GTI, 1x MK7 Golf 1.4 TSI, 1x MK6 Jetta GLI

    8. #157
      You can't look at my avatar for just a second, can you? Just Another Sweater's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      Turn of Events

      They can't find a coolant leak after "extensive" testing.

      I had a coolant warning in ~July. I added some Audi-OEM coolant and 50% distilled water to the "medium" tick mark level.

      Now I'm getting the coolant warning again in October after driving about 800 miles per month and the coolant is slightly below the minimum level.

      I have heard that these engines all burn a little bit of coolant. But this seems excessive. They want to let the vehicle settle over night.

      Maybe the head gasket is shot? If so, that's a pay out of pocket repair. I will give you that.
      I've owned 6 VWs since 2002, all turbocharged, and all of them have somehow consumed coolant between oil changes. They have never consumed what SFV is describing. I might top the coolant off with a few ounces every 5,000 miles. I think I've had the same bottle since 2015 and it's still over half full.

      With your car on a lift, they can remover the plastic engine splash shield, and see 'deposits' below the waterpump if it is leaking.

      IMO, it's just the dealer saying 'we don't see a problem' and hoping you go away.

      Edit: Since January 2016 and about 50,000 miles.



      Last edited by Just Another Sweater; 10-13-2020 at 09:37 PM. Reason: Pictures added

    9. #158
      Member kiznarsh's Avatar
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      Best course of action to replicate the problem would be to replicate your driving conditions.

      They have until November 13 to drive 800 miles with 98% of it on the freeway and 2% of this:


    10. #159
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      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      Turn of Events

      They can't find a coolant leak after "extensive" testing.

      I had a coolant warning in ~July. I added some Audi-OEM coolant and 50% distilled water to the "medium" tick mark level.

      Now I'm getting the coolant warning again in October after driving about 800 miles per month and the coolant is slightly below the minimum level.

      I have heard that these engines all burn a little bit of coolant. But this seems excessive. They want to let the vehicle settle over night.

      Maybe the head gasket is shot? If so, that's a pay out of pocket repair. I will give you that.
      This car has a sealed coolant system and it if is working correctly you should never lose a detectable amount of coolant during a period of many years. The system on this car is leaking in a significant way and they are not competent enough to diagnose it.
      Incompetent dealer, take it to another store.

      Sorry to say but you will be suing and probably losing unfortunately.

    11. #160
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      Zero coolant loss in 50k miles and counting on my gen 1 EA888.

      They don't want to deal with you fighting them on the repair since you already told them they can't void the warranty, so they are washing their hands of you so you go away before it even starts.

    12. #161
      Member Atl-Atl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake White View Post
      Sorry to say but you will be suing and probably losing unfortunately.
      As if he needed any more reason to keep on keepin on.

    13. #162
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      Quote Originally Posted by Atl-Atl View Post
      As if he needed any more reason to keep on keepin on.

      I believe that the area dealerships are already very aware of this thread and he will be blackballed from getting service more than likely.

    14. #163
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      Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake White View Post
      I believe that the area dealerships are already very aware of this thread and he will be blackballed from getting service more than likely.
      So which dealership do you work for then?

    15. #164
      Member n0rdicalex.'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      Is be surprised if the tstat on that engine wasn't a "smart" actuator and possibly even built into part of the water pump.
      Not that that takes away anything else from what you wrote... But it's unlikely to be a simple thermostat



      If it's a smart actuator - do we know the tune didn't explicit modify it's behavior?

      Again, not familiar with the specifics of this engine or the apr tune, but none of this is outside the realm of possibility...

      But I'm just here for the party
      it's definitely not a standard wax motor thermostat:



      https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...-vw-06l121111j
      welcome to the layer cake

    16. #165
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      I've owned four EA888s between 2007 and 2018. With the exception of the Gen 3 (currently own, although not for long at this point), the other three (two Gen 1s and one Gen 2) all lost small amounts of coolant during normal operation. Had one water pump fail on the 2007, but aside from that, there was some amount of small regular consumption. It bugged me.

      OP, how much coolant have you been losing? It sure sounds like it's more than the small amount I'm describing, but my anecdotal evidence points to these engines consuming a bit of coolant regularly.
      Last edited by kaz02a4; 10-14-2020 at 09:33 AM.
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      That's like a child saying, "I'm going to swing my fists and walk towards you, and if you get hit, it's your fault!"

    17. #166
      Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by n0rdicalex. View Post
      it's definitely not a standard wax motor thermostat:
      What you have pictured is the thermostat housing, not the thermostat. And from what I've seen the water pump also connects to this housing, which is a bit different than in a lot of cars. Looks like you can't just replace the thermostat in these. Guess this is another reason I'm happy not to own a modern VAG product.

    18. #167
      Member n0rdicalex.'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      What you have pictured is the thermostat housing, not the thermostat. And from what I've seen the water pump also connects to this housing, which is a bit different than in a lot of cars. Looks like you can't just replace the thermostat in these. Guess this is another reason I'm happy not to own a modern VAG product.
      it's a thermostat assembly - the thermostat is integrated into the plastic housing pictured below. the water pump also interfaces with this assembly, but not included on this picture.

      welcome to the layer cake

    19. #168
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      Google the *same* problem for MK7 GTIs.

      The 2.0T loses coolant from a weep hole in the t-stat housing and leaks down the side of the block. Often unseeable. Often because the water pump is leaking. The only coolant they're burning is what's being burnt off after leaking onto the block.

      Source: Same thing is happening with my car.

      Pretty sure the same thing happened with the MK6 2.0T FSI as well.

      There's tons of threads on the Golf M*K*7 boards about the issue.
      Last edited by HotCarlWeathers; 10-14-2020 at 10:20 AM.
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    20. #169
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      Quote Originally Posted by HotCarlWeathers View Post
      Google the *same* problem for MK7 GTIs.

      The 2.0T loses coolant from a weep hole in the t-stat housing and leaks down the side of the block. Often unseeable. Often because the water pump is leaking. The only coolant they're burning is what's being burnt off after leaking onto the block.

      Source: Same thing is happening with my car.
      German engineering at its finest

    21. #170
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      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
      They don't want to deal with you fighting them on the repair since you already told them they can't void the warranty, so they are washing their hands of you so you go away before it even starts.
      ^this is the reason OP shouldn't have started with talk of a lawsuit. Mentioning the nuclear option at step 1 will drive away any rational dealership. If I were the dealer, I would politely do everything I could to get out of the impending ****show.

    22. #171
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      Quote Originally Posted by Just Another Sweater View Post
      I've owned 6 VWs since 2002, all turbocharged, and all of them have somehow consumed coolant between oil changes. They have never consumed what SFV is describing. I might top the coolant off with a few ounces every 5,000 miles. I think I've had the same bottle since 2015 and it's still over half full.

      With your car on a lift, they can remover the plastic engine splash shield, and see 'deposits' below the waterpump if it is leaking.

      IMO, it's just the dealer saying 'we don't see a problem' and hoping you go away.

      Edit: Since January 2016 and about 50,000 miles.
      I too have this happen; I have a MK6 GTI, and in the 6 years I've had the car I finally had to add some coolant last year, maybe a cup or so. Car doesn't leak coolant, and everytime I change the oil I get under the car, remove the belly pan, and shine a bright light around under there looking for anything that doesn't look right. Never had coolant drips or anything else leaving a trace; yet the coolant DID disappear over time, albeit a very small amount. I'm among those that think these cars do consume coolant, to a small extent.
      2014 CSG GTI

    23. #172
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      Quote Originally Posted by puma1552 View Post
      They don't want to deal with you fighting them on the repair since you already told them they can't void the warranty, so they are washing their hands of you so you go away before it even starts.
      Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake White View Post
      Sorry to say but you will be suing and probably losing unfortunately...I believe that the area dealerships are already very aware of this thread and he will be blackballed from getting service more than likely.
      Quote Originally Posted by StressStrain View Post
      ^this is the reason OP shouldn't have started with talk of a lawsuit. Mentioning the nuclear option at step 1 will drive away any rational dealership. If I were the dealer, I would politely do everything I could to get out of the impending ****show.
      I didn’t want to be the wet blanket, but having gone to bat with VAG many many times, the last thing you want to ever do is start out saying you are going to sue- whether you have a case or not. Considering how many different entities are involved, and how much they communicate behind the scenes, litigious customers tend to come out on the bottom thanks to VAG’s clever maneuvering. SVF isn’t their first rodeo unfortunately.

      I think with the dealer already playing dumb, it is a clear sign that the rodeo has begun.

    24. #173
      Member Pnuu's Avatar
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      Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall any indication that Schnell has said anything to Audi or the dealership about lawsuit, M-M act, or being a lawyer. Last I saw he was going through the normal motions that any customer would and is paying the diagnostic fee to see what's wrong.

    25. #174
      Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pnuu View Post
      Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall any indication that Schnell has said anything to Audi or the dealership about lawsuit, M-M act, or being a lawyer. Last I saw he was going through the normal motions that any customer would and is paying the diagnostic fee to see what's wrong.
      This is accurate. I did mention that it was against federal law to blanket deny warranties, but I didn't come out guns-a-blazin.

      The other aspect of this that (I think) is lost on a few of you is that I've been totally open and honest with them about the car. I didn't try to put it back to stock or anything. So we'll see. It's also possible that the coolant level sensor itself is faulty (although that wouldn't really explain why the coolant level visually seems to have gone down over the past couple months).

      So who knows. If they say that they can't find anything wrong with the car, I will probably bring it to an indy mechanic for a second opinion. But as I keeps saying, let's see how this plays out.
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    26. #175
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      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      This is accurate. I did mention that it was against federal law to blanket deny warranties, but I didn't come out guns-a-blazin.
      I mean you didn’t have to say it to actually say it. But hopefully they will at least diagnose it and not completely blow you off.

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